GoldFinger1969

Keep in mind some of us don't have the experience and knowledge of some of you vets on the backstage/gossip part of this hobby, so that's why I am a bit slow on the take .....I presume that those 2 people somehow got the picture feature or TrueView feature from the Coin Facts website/section removed ?

Don't bother, just figured if you had the information at the ready it might be interesting to know. Activity and quality of posts seems to be trending up, that's a good sign.

FYI...the 1907 High Relief Saint drop cited above....you go back 2 years and it's down about 20-25% for an MS63 grade even though gold bullion is up nicely.

Not really "concerns" so much as recognizing that ideally a price or FMV represents a large number of transparent sales continuously. With our coins, no 2 are exactly alike but even those given the same numerical grade can often have minute differences, sell at different times, meet different levels of demand, etc. Still....it's better than nothing !

Makes sense....Roger actually covers the NGC-Proof angle in his book pretty much in-depth. Obviously, this is key since HA gives that information alongside the coins when they are up for auction on their website.

I would agree with the thrust of this post. Ironically, I've used HA mostly for currency -- I think I only have 1 or 2 coins from them. I've BID alot -- just mostly "stink bids" hoping to get something 30% or so below FMV (no luck ). The BEST and SIMPLEST way to gauge our hobby is to compare attendance at coin shows (monthlies, regionals, or the Big 3). It's easy to tell if attendance has been going up or down over time there. Plus, if you went up the last 5-10 years as the internet exploded, that was an even better sign. Of course, C-19 disrupted all of this for 2020 and probably parts of 2021, too.

I'm sure you can opt-out. It looks like, aside from items where I am bidding and getting OUTBID or status emails, that I get 2-4 emails a week about upcoming auctions.

Wow.....only 2 years ago these coins were selling pretty consistently for $20,000 (incl. bp). Despite a nice rise in gold since then, lower-end 1907 High Relief's have clearly weakened. Unless the TPGs have gotten some raw 1907's of late to grade (thereby increasing the supply), it appears you just had existing holders want out and there wasn't enough demand to absorb it at the prevailing price.

I'll let Roger chime in, but maybe he heard they were considering it or it was likely but NGC is cointinuing with the status quo. It might not matter really....they may not receive any more 1907 HR "proofs" anyway. Maybe they haven't gotten any in years.

From what I have seen, the prices for MS65 and above have held up. Since you are talking about $50,000 and up here, these buyers appear less price-sensitive. Definite weakness at MS63 and below....AU58 and below.

USA, did you find any rattler Saints MS66 or better ?

What happened to Coin Facts ?

Isn't that just the residue of a die crack ?

Did I read somewhere that HA has 900,000 registered users ? Anybody confirm ? Anybody know someone at HA who can tell us how many ACTIVE (bidding monthly or buying at least once a year) users there are ? Users for both GC and Ebay also of interest.

Philly was an "R" town ? I find that hard to believe.....maybe mayorally but not at the city council level. Even with Italian-Americans gravitating to the R's to counter the Irish heading to the D's.

I'm still waiting to see an actual newsletter to see more detail....but it's pretty easy to come up with multiple coins that represent bullion, quasi-numismatics, premium numismatics, and ultra-rares. Unless a bunch of one year or mintmark come out for sale or at once...or the population data changes...declines for one kind of coin should be pretty much mirrored for others of the same type (over time). In other words, focusing on the SPECIFIC coins is a bit too specific as there might not be many liquid buys/sales to establish a true FMV or price. I think an MS63 grade for the 1907 HR is a pretty popular combination....but why an MS64 for the 1928 ? Why not MS65, the first level of Gem Quality ? Or go down to MS63 or 62 to better approximate generic bullion ? I appreciate all the sales data from NGC, PCGS, HA, etc...but what might be really great is an index comprising multiple Saints...or better yet, an index for generics, quasi-numismatics, premiums, etc. JMHO.....

I see the Commentary from JG available on this website; it's the price guide that isn't listed. I have an actual MS-63 1915-S I bought at FUN in January. I paid just over $1,600 as I recall and it was a slight premium to the actual gold price at the time (I can check later) and then a bit more when you account for the 3% discount to 1 ounce found in Saints. Not sure why it sells for $2,300 now -- that is a HUGE 15%-plus premium to spot without taking into account the sub-1oz. size !!!

Not surprised to see the 1907 HR among worst performers (no grade given). But the AU's I followed earlier in the year were pretty weak. Only high-end 1907 High Reliefs (> MS 65) seemed to be doing well on HA and GC.

Thanks QA....must have been a PC glitch, can't believe NGC didn't want NGC info posted here. Wow, I actually bought a 1915-S earlier this year ! Are those performances YTD ? Last year, going back 12 months ?

Disagree...there are great stories and history associated with many coins, notably Saints and Morgans. I'm pretty sure RWB would agree -- 'cause he kind of wrote some books about them !!

FWIW, I used only Ebay for probably a decade while buying coins. Never even had heard of HA. Got active in these and other forums and learned about them. Checked them out, saw stuff within my budget that I could afford, joined and buy from time-to-time, $$$-depending. Actually, I've bought far more in terms of quantity and $$$ value in currency via HA than coins. Active in HA for just over a year or so I believe. Coins only from GC, active there less than a year. No account at SB or others.

More interesting tidbits from the book: "Copper Spots, Red Spots, Gold Corrosion and Stains" is a fascinating chapter on those things that drive us nuts but for which information (aside from the web and specialty numismatic periodicals) is very rare. The metallic chemistry and other chemical reactions are a bit in-depth, but very interesting. "Luster" was really informative. Luster is light reflecting off thouasands of tiny ridges and grooves of metal in the smooth areas of the coin (fields). The crystals in the die face minutely change as 120 tons of force struck the metal. Smooth die fields then became microscopic ridges and grooves. "Striking Quality" gives you a few areas of the Saint-Gaudens DEs to focus on for quality striking detail. South American DEs tended to be of higher quality than those coming from Europe (more bank-handled).

HA, SB, and GC should be a good source here as they can tell us how many users they have.....active users.....winning bidders....repeat bidders who win....etc. They have been pretty active now for a few years each (HA longer, I believe). But social media took off the last few years so let's see where all the online bidders are by 2024 or so and that might give us some good information. Eventually....if the pie is getting bigger and the collectors universe is expanding....you should see it show up in both rising coin prices (maybe including gold and silver bullion) and also attendance at premier coin shows (this happened to me).

Some people entrust illiquid asset sales to a friend (sometimes specifically enumerated in their Will or Estate Plan). Some enlist a friend in the same business. A dealer or fellow hobbyist. You could also have approximate FMV's for each of the coins, or a range, to assist. I worked in 2 private banks and dealt with some HNW and ultra-HNW individuals. One guy had a collection of foreign and ancient coins in the thousands and had an Excel spreadsheet with all the data, including approximate value, so his stuff didn't sell for too cheap a price.

I'm awaiting someone at NGC send me the newsletter you reference, but maybe you can tell me what the Top 5 and Bottom 5 and any commentary was referencing ?