GoldFinger1969

Between this thread and the extensive research in the SAINTS book, my interest in this common has picked up immensely. I am now looking at a nice 1908 NM for my collection. Will start saving up for a nice one.

....I wanted to keep the hardcover TBP Catalog in the excellent condition I got it (pages, binding, etc.) so I got a 2nd one, a softcover, to read the next few weeks. Except IT'S also in pristine condition !! I may have to order a 3rd one, in junky condition.

This discussion and the Wells Fargo Hoard thread -- plus your book -- really got me turned onto getting a nice 1908 No Motto Wells coin, esp. if I have to wait on a High Relief for $$$ reasons. Hopefully I can post pics soon. Hoping I can stretch for an MS66 or 67.

Got it, thanks. Might also pick up ROAC.....it's on sale. 1905-1908 is the book most heavy on Saints, right ?

Nobody wanted to buy the gold coins to get the 1995-W ASE. Later on, it became a key date. Highest price paid I believe was for a PF70 DCAM -- $86,000, I believe. I think you can get that same coin or one substantially the same for about $15,000 today.

I think the format change a few years ago didn't help, but at least now we're getting used to it.

Then ignore him.....and if your posts are worthy of feedback and other comments, I am sure you'll get a bunch of them. Lots of novices over there just like here.

Got a link ? Or maybe you can attach a PDF here.

I've seen reference to the Merkers Mine but never seen any detail on quantity of coins, what type of gold coins, condition, disposition, etc. If you have any good articles or leads, please post them. A standard bag of double eagles was 250 coins. 700 bags would have been 175,000 coins. The Wells Fargo Hoard was about 80 bags assuming each filled to 250 each.

I thought it was 250 double eagle coins per bag or $5,000 ?

Many of the coins have the OGH 3.1 slab during which you generally did NOT have loose grading standards. I've also seen some Wells Fargo coins with CAC stickers, and John Albanese tends to be pretty tough grading Saints. Don't forget, over 50% of the hoard (12,000 coins) were MS-65 or below....there the market got oversupplied and you couldn't really cut prices at those grades because they already traded as generic common bullion. That's why dealers got fed up with Wells Fargo NM's. They were already a generic common even before the hoard and in the MS65 grades or below plentiful enough. Then you had thousands more in each grade. No wonder they got indigestion. I find it strange that Gillio hasn't revealed more details. It's not like it's top secret or he did something illegal. Common sense would indicate either he had a sensitive lead at a bank that had the coins OR they came from some individual or institution where someone maybe cut some corners. Maybe a private citizen from Central or South America had the coins and a family member or government official decided to liquidate it and take his/her cut secretly. I doubt they came from Europe since the American dealers had experts scouring those banks in the 1960's and 1970's. This would be a record hoard in size, hard to believe it lasted until the mid-1990's. Possible, but highly unlikely. A small or midsized South American, Central American, or Mexican bank....some leader of a military junta....a south of the border government agency that aquired the coins. Those are some possibilities. The coins were probably on the books for about $400,000, the face value of the coins. Gold was about $375/oz. so the coins were worth just under $7.5 million based on bullion value. Most of the coins initially sold for just over $1,100 retail so assuming that Gillio bought them all as 1 group (not segmenting the coins by quality) for about half of that (a nice markup above the spot price of $375/oz.)....he probably paid about $10-$11 MM.

It looks like the condition rarity pre-Wells hit right at MS66 but was really big at the MS67 and 68 levels. But at MS65 and below, nada. There was enough coins at that level for collectors, investors, and all others.

I don't think that was intentional on the part of a Mod.....they may have an algorithym or something that says if you don't post within a certain period of joining it was a spam account or bot. I dunno........

There was a problem with e-mail notification at CoinTalk.com. It may have appeared you were being banned....but it was an error. If you reach out to the Mods or the Site Administrator, you should get clearance. If not, just post here or in another thread and ask a CT.com member to provide your e-mail to the Mods there so they can be on the alert to bypass the glitch. I've helped a few folks here at NGC get things straight at CT.com.

I love the National Park commemoratives for Augustus Saint-Gaudens. You get to have some proof and reverse proof designs of patterns that the Mint never created. I've bought a bunch of the silver ones, but not the gold ones. Many are pricey, but if you are patient, you should be able to buy a gold one for within 10% or so of gold spot.

Ebay and Great Collections and maybe even Heritage Auctions (though they may be out of your price range). Right now, you seem like a quantity over quality kind of collector....not going for expensive or high-grade coins. If you decide to up the ante, so to speak, then GC and HA will be more important. Ditto coin shows.

What kind of coins do they specialize in.....and what are you considering bidding on ?

And I did....entire section on 1908's is outstanding, I never knew about Long and Short Rays before. The change in price for >MS65 coins once the hoard hit is very interesting, esp. the MS67's and MS68's.

The coins sold by Rick Tomaska generally are selling for 25-35% over FMV.

Did you buy it at Heritage or GC ?

I contacted Heritage last month and asked about this and they said they didn't have anything for me. I'm SURE they have or could send someone a copy of the final manuscript in PDF format. If you reach the right person at Heritage with a copy, let me know.

Why are Trade Dollars so often counterfeited ? I'm not familiar with the type, so excuse my ignorance. Are they pricey, popular, or what ? I get counterfeiting Morgans or Saints or even Liberty's or more modern coins, I take it the mark-up on Trade Dollars makes counterfeiting worth it, huh ? BTW, am I wrong in thinking that counterfeiting of more recent coins from the 1930's onward -- especially non-gold, non-silver coins made of nickel and other elements -- is less of a problem than older coins and/or coins made from PM's ?

Happens ALL the time...with digital scales cheap, they figure that most people will check the weight on silver and gold coins.

Questions....did you do any research on Trade Dollars before buying this coin ? Also, how much did you pay relative to what you thought you might have to for a coin of this pedigree ? And am I reading you correct...your friend's coin shop sold you the coin ?

I don't think anybody should blame you or anyone else for pointing out an error in their coin evaluation. It's usually the commentary that follows that might set people off after they were disappointed to learn that their $5.00 coin isn't worth $500.