GoldFinger1969

That guy Farouk was a real beaut....collected EVERYTHING (Saints, Faberge Eggs) and meanwhile his people were starving. No wonder Nasser was able to depose him so quickly. The whole "we can't disrupt an ally, it'll lead to Hitler's victory" argument against going after the coin doesn't hit home with me. More likely, with a war going on and Americans dying thousands of miles away on multiple fronts, they realized the U.S. government would look RIDICULOUS spending time and manpower going after a coin that wasn't made of plutonium or U-235. General Marshall: "Good news, Mr. President...." FDR: "We'll be soon able to open a 2nd front in Europe ? Stalin's been teed off for months now asking for that 2nd front.....or maybe we've accelerated the Island-hopping in the Pacific ? Doug making more progress in the Philipines ?" General Marshall: "None of that sir...but we did retrieve one of those $20 double eagles that was supposed to be melted down. We now have it. What do you want us to do with it ?" FDR: "I'll tell you what you can do with it...."

Yet, they let Fenton get 50% of the proceeds (and dropped the criminal charges, what sweet guys !! ). Again....if 1933 Saints in the 1940's traded like the 1907 High Reliefs did after World War 1 (5-10% premium)...the Feds don't give a bleep. The Feds saw a bunch of $20 gold pieces...which never got an "official" release....selling for up to $800 a few years later. In normal times, they'd be jealous and pissed. In The Depression, they were probably steaming.

Wow, they made the gist of the story into a novel ? Didn't know that......for a second, I thought it was the horror guy Steven King. Yeah, the 10 coins were found in a mini-safe really, not some tiny SDB. Something in size similar to a mini-fridge as I understand it (maybe a bit smaller).

Come on Kurt....joking references aside, it was poster and guy talk. I see the same stuff in my business field where when a stock acts like c*** you badmouth it and curse it out. Then you're talking it up to a potential client. Doesn't mean you really are selling your client a crappy stock, you're just cursing out a stock much like you would you favorite football team....or friends...or spouse. Besides, there were other posters and witnesses who might have been called to testify who had friends contacted asking for dirt on them. These weren't folks "sliming themselves" and the government still wanted dirt.

The coin-by-coin analysis was something new which I hadn't seen in one place. Your book has the best in-depth analysis of the Switt-Langbord Ten. BTW, the Mint blowhard was Frank Leland Howard who started this whole mess.

One more thing....I think it is HILLARIOUS that posters ATS (and maybe here and elsewhere) were contacted by the FBI or Treasury to get "dirt" on possible witnesses who might testify for the Langbords. That and the sliming of Roger Burdette ("He's an IT guy") shows you they didn't rely on the facts, but on a moronic judge with a reputation for sloppiness and bias well-known to those in his courtroom over the years. Guy was counting the days to his fat judicial pension, no doubt.

Mark, I think Kurt even considers any exchange past April 6th to be ILLEGAL. And he may consider those exchanges before then to be illegal since none were "recorded" in a ledger. As I understand it, the 1933 Indian Head $10 pieces (about 35-40) are ALL legal because about 5 of them were recorded as sales from the Mint -- and thus, since the government can't tell which of the 35-40 are the 5 recorded sales, they all get legal status (for now ). Isn't there some dispute as to whether a picture in some book is the Farouk coin or some other coin ? I remember reading about it years ago somewhere but wasn't as involved in the 1933 discussion at that time so it went in one ear and out the other. But I believe they ID'd the various coins by marks in the field. Now, some guy voluntarily turned in his 1933 Saint in 2018 (Weinman I think referenced that in his 2018 PA talk). That may be the coin in question in that book. But what irks me is he didn't even fight for his coin....presumably, he's got some $$$ and I wish he would have shopped for a more favorable venue than the one in Philly (the judge was biased against the Langbords). He might have won. Certainly, with private property rights under assault, he would have gotten more exposure and a possible political settlement.

It was a bit "cleaner", yes. Was it $1,500 or so cleaner which I believe was the diference in price ? That's the $64,000 question (or $1,500 question ). Remember, there's a huge jump in price from MS66 to MS67 for the 1923-D. I've seen a bunch of 1924, 1927, and 1928 commons on GC in recent months go off at MS66 and MS67 levels, with MS66 CACs going up another 20-30% of the way to the 67 level. All these coins (including the 1923-D) trade about the same in these conditions, give-or-take a bit.

Roger (RWB) makes a bunch of excellent points, Sharann. Understand that even with an "expert" giving a coin a grade it can be WRONG. So that $50 penny you thought was worth at least that turns out to be from a time period when grading standards were "looser" and then when you goto sell it instead of getting the then-FMV (Fair Market Value) of $60 you find out a dealer will only pay you $35 because he thinks it was overgraded in the first place. OK, so you lost $15 or so plus lost profits. No huge thing. But now try that on a coin costing hundreds of dollars...or thousands. I was reading the other night where a coin was sold by Legends Numismatics (LM, a very high-end dealer and auction house) for $6,500 or so and then got re-sold on Great Collections (GC) a few months later for UNDER $2,000. WTH ???!!!? I forgot the coin but the population went up by 1 in the rare grade it had....and then you just had fewer bidders at a site (GC) that doesn't always attract the Big $$$ buyers that LM or HA bring to the table. Boom !! Someone bought high and sold low. It's supposed to be the other way around.

If there's stuff you don't like with less sentimental value, no problem turning it into something you really like or love. I inherited a bunch of old bills (very worn silver and gold certificates) and lots of silver coins....it was unwieldly and took up alot of space....turned it into a few graded bills including a nice Gold Certificate plus a Saint-Gaudens. Kept a few of the older silver coins as a remembrance.

The lack of sales tax and lower post-hammer charges (lower commission) adds up, esp. on lower-priced items you want to spend a certain amount on and no more.

Heritage Auctions just auctions. The 2 biggies in grading are PCGS and NGC (our sponsor here). ANACs and ICG do a nice job in their specialty fields but are much smaller. I believe "Insider" here and on CT works for ICG. The main auction places are Ebay (derisevely called "Fleabay" for all the junk and counterfeits seen)...Heritage, the largest....Great Collections (pretty new but developing a nice niche)...and Stacks Bowers (a smaller Heritage with a long history but only dealing in high-end coins for the most part). There are other auction houses -- some affiliated with dealers -- but between Ebay, HA, and GC, you are more than covered for low-priced and higher-end coins.

Some nice coins there....just on bullion price alone, some nice value and appreciation. Some of the others will depend on the condition but also very nice. Do you plan to keep them, sell them, what ?

Can you post a link to the original posting of the 22 coins ? EDIT: Never mind, found it !

Here's some pennies going off at Great Collections tonight (their auctions appear to always end on Sunday nights). Scroll down to the Coin Auctions and Buy Now coins section: https://www.greatcollections.com/Series/17/1909-1958-Lincoln-Cents So with just over 9 hours left....I see a bunch of 1909's from $26 to $9,800 (a 67 DD). You can see what happens as you go up in grade and if there's a special condition like a DD or toning. The "Red" designation appears to matter (not familiar with these coins, just pointing it out ). Other non-1909's show up further down the list.

Never trust a seller on Ebay for specific information, always double-check. The Heritage descriptions are usually 99.9% solid. Hell, I even looked up key/expensive Saint-Gaudens listings (many with separate comments from David Akers)...copied them into a Word Document....turned that into a PDF...and now have it on my smartphone to read anytime I want to. Easier than looking them all up in the archive plus as I've said if anything happened to their online database, I am protected.

You'll notice that there's lots of good information on the coin in question AND other coins mentioned in these descriptions over at HA. Here's some info on the 1925-D and it immediately tells you a few other key dates. It also starts out by printing something many can relate to: how many collectors tried to collect pennies as kids with the Whitman books but couldn't find the "key" dates: https://coins.ha.com/itm/lincoln-cents/small-cents/1925-d-1c-ms66-red-pcgs-pcgs-2563-/a/1129-194.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 The Single Finest PCGS 1925-D Lincoln Cent MS66 Red 1925-D 1C MS66 Red PCGS. Collectors of Registry Set Lincolns are mostly keen, sharp-eyed, and deep-pocketed, making "men's (and women's) toys" from a series that most of us tried--and failed--to complete inexpensively from circulation coins, popping them into blue Whitman folders when we were young. In the highest Registry Set or Mint State levels, some of the various Lincoln cent issues turn the normal relationships between them on their heads. For example, that ever-elusive 1909-S VDB: It was an immense prize, the rarest and among the most expensive coins in a circulated set. But in MS65 or MS66 Red, while still costly, it is far less expensive (per the PCGS online Price Guide, to which we refer throughout) than the 1914-D, the 1914-S, the 1915-S, or the 1917-S. (We do not mention the 1916-S, because PCGS has never certified an MS66 Red and therefore provides no price.) The 1918-S in MS65 Red costs four times the price of a Gem Red 1909-S VDB. In the 1920s, some of the mintmarked issues provide even more stark differences. A Gem Red 1921-S costs twice what a Gem Red S VDB goes for. A Gem Red 1922-D (if you can find one) is about half of an S VDB in 65 Red--a bargain, in our opinion--but a 1923-S in MS65 Red will cost three times as much. And of course, the storied 1926-S in MS65 Red, the only one so certified at PCGS, has become a legendary rarity, a coin that we have handled twice. The 1924-D and 1924-S are a similar story, and so are the 1925-D and 1925-S. Only with the 1927-D (but not the 1927-S) and later mintmarked issues do the comparisons and prices start to become more favorable. The present Premium Gem Red 1925-D cent is one of just two so certified at PCGS, and needless to say, there are none finer, either technically or aesthetically. This fully brilliant Premium Gem has gorgeous orange mint luster, with bold design details for an issue that is a notorious strike rarity. In fact, the design definition is sharper on this example than on any other we have handled. The surfaces are frosty and pristine, entirely void of marks or spots. The coloration is a brilliant sunset-orange. Registry Set collectors note: Of the top five PCGS sets, this coin would upgrade all three of the Current Finest Lincoln Cent Basic Sets, Circulation Strikes that display their inventory (PCGS has an option where you can display your set and ranking, but not its components). Two of those sets contain a 1925-D in MS64 Red; the third has an MS65 Red. Population: 2 in 66 Red, 0 finer (9/09).(Registry values: N2998)

OK, there were non-1914D coins in a search but I found this near the top of the most expensive and it explains for another 1914-D why that year and mintmark are so valuable: https://coins.ha.com/itm/lincoln-cents/small-cents/1914-d-1c-ms66-red-pcgs-pcgs-2473-/a/1232-3073.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 So they only made 1.1 million of these....very few saved...thus, if you want one in the key MS-66 grade with the Red color, it's expensive. "The 1909-S VDB remains collectible through MS66 Red, but only 10 examples of the 1914-D have been certified by PCGS and NGC combined at the MS66 grade level, with the Red designation. These 10 certification events are evenly split between the services, with five citations at each grading house. No finer examples have been certified at either service, and even this small figure may include a few resubmissions and crossovers (12/15). Most of the high-grade examples we know about today probably come from a hoard of about 700 pieces that Walter Breen says existed until the 1950s, although Q. David Bowers reports two rolls of Red and Brown Uncirculated specimens were discovered in Hawaii or the Philippines in the 1970s."

Not sure....must be something about the 1914-D that causes this coin even in a pretty low-grade and with environmental damage to cost over $500. But I'm not an expert on this coin or the population so I won't venture more than that. It can't be an ultra-rare coin though...it would cost more AND it would have something in the Description section over at HA. I was surprised there wasn't a few lines.

It's a bit early for you to scan auction results and stuff (maybe Ebay for now), but I was curious and went to the Heritage Auctions archives and lo and behold this was just sold in January of this year for $840,000: https://coins.ha.com/itm/lincoln-cents/small-cents/1943-d-1c-struck-on-a-bronze-planchet-ms64-brown-pcgs-pcgs-82712-/a/1326-3005.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 You'll need to create a login but it has lots of information on what appears to be the most expensive Lincoln cent sold by HA. If for some reason you don't/can't login, let me know and I can always cut-and-paste the paragraphs.

Just make sure however you store your coins is not damaging them if they are not graded/slabbed by a TPG (Third Party Grader). Years ago, people used the Whitman Books and other albums to keep their coins. That was OK with coins you got from change at store, but if you DID have a valuable or semi-valuable coin that was worth multiples of face value and you want to protect it from the elements and/or hands or even the chemicals in a book or plastic holder...you want to do something else. For now, I wouldn't worry about it. But when or if you start BUYING coins (including raw ones, not graded), you'll want to make sure you are preserving your coins correctly. For me, anything that has a material cost I have in a slab so I don't worry about it.

Wikepedia is just for the basics and a 30,000 foot view. The forums and books are where you get the specific information. You'll eventually find the threads with knowledgeable posters and experts -- even actual graders, dealers, auction house personnel, and authors (like Roger Burdette here on Saints and other numismatic history). You'll soak up their information like I have with Roger and other Saint experts (I even saved some threads here just in case ). You read and learn...read and learn...post and learn....wash and repeat. I've learned alot but still can learn so much more. But the point is....make sure you enjoy it. This isn't school or work, it's supposed to be FUN.

And the internet isn't a bad place to scour for information, either. Even old friend Wikepedia has a nice read on the penny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_cent I sometimes scour Google and YouTube for information on Saints and other coins...most of the time, it's repeat cut-and-pastes and sometimes it's stuff that is out of date by a decade....but every now and then you find something with new information. Of course, now that I have Roger's book on SAINTS I really don't need to do that anymore. If anything, they're probably plagiarizing from him !

If you want to know the stories behind various years and mintmarks and the origins of today's modern penny -- which I think is the same pretty much as the 1909 -- then a book on that coin (the Whitman books I think most would agree are the best) is a MUST. They are great for beginners and intermediate collectors. Even experts still read them, though they probably know most of that stuff if they've been collecting for years or decades. The Annual Red Book (which has a price guide) covers ALL kinds of U.S. coins and you'll probably want at least one, but that gives only a 30,000 foot view on each coin type. Worth having one of them at some point. Some full-time vets here get one every year and have them going back decades.

You'll learn the lingo. We all do. And then someone with more knowledge will correct you 5 years from now and put you in your place. Just like that high-school English teacher you cursed behind her back.