GoldFinger1969

Heritage Auctions is also very good. You can also ask folks here !

There may be other threads here at NGC in the archives on Double Dies. Give them a look. If not, check out other forums like CT.

Fair points....another well-skilled veteran noted that if you complained in the past about loose grading standards, then you can't complain about CAC since they are separating the weak coins from the strong ones in a particular grade.

No, I think more PCGS have CAC but it has nothing to do with quality or grading of the coins that each has submitted. If there was a PCGS gap in favor of tighter grading 10-15 years or so ago, I think it has narrowed or disappeared. Others can chime in who actually spend more time on this and actually submit coins. I freely admit I am going with anectdotal evidence. Some really badly graded coins....outliers, not the norm...do seem to be PCGS graded. Not many, but I've seen them in various forums. Maybe NGC had that problem 20+ years ago and it took a while to shake that reputation.

So basic pros vs. cons......I think that most CAC stickers are on PCGS as opposed to NGC (FWIW) so I would think that would be of special interest over at CU. My feeling is...I'm not obsessed with CAC but I am not vehemently against it, either. I can certainly understand if someone feels their extensive collection has been monetarily devalued because it doesn't have CAC stickers galore (I still feel any collection would still valuable without CAC stickers). And just because something doesn't have a CAC does NOT mean it is a "C" coin.

What's the gist of the CAC discussion over at CU ?

Feel free to chime in and discuss the Albanese interview any time...........

I think it's just a damaged quarter. I doubt it would be worth much.

Not seeing any pics.

Clearly, collectibles (everything from comic books to movie props) are a big business and probably why the PE guys wanted Collectors Universe. Since NGC is private, they can maneuver as they see fit.

Usually, for the top-of-the-line coins in each type, they say the list of owners with the words "Ex." preceeding it. I would think the gallery won't give out that information. Sometimes, bidders are anonymous until they reveal themselves later, if at all (i.e., the 1933 Saint in 2002, the 1927-D Saint I saw auctioned at FUN 2020). This "Harte" collection isn't as famous as the Garrett, Price, Eliasberg, etc. collections that we see on the lineage of other coins. I haven't seen the name before but I'll double-check the Bowers' GUIDE BOOK. It's NOT on the list of the 5 top-end 1907 High Reliefs auctioned through HA because I cut-and-pasted a few of those into my Saints PDF. Could be others I didn't see (and if this was cleaned and/or a lower grade, that would eclipse the ownership of TR and his daughter in terms of making the coin valuable) and/or it could have gone to Stacks or another auction house. The 5 high-end 1907 HR's I included in my Saints PDF were all MS-68 or above, except for the Flat Rim MS-67.

I have a listing of all the 1907 High Reliefs and I don't see any going from TR to anybody with the last name "Harte." I'll keep digging........

Thanks Craw, very interesting. Great job ! I am pretty sure that the official rating of MS-65 is not an actual TPG certification but the grade that "Choice Uncirculated" corresponded to back pre-1986. I wonder if that High Relief actually might score an actual MS-67 from the TPGs. Probably well-taken care of if it was one that actually belonged to Teddy R.....probably a $60,000-$100,000 coin today.

Well, you're here..... Would you check the price of something like that if you were on the fence about buying a coin or just go ahead and buy it ? How would you check the price (besides asking your granddaughter to check ) ?

It did seem to reveal something many have suspected but nobody has gone on the record with. Maybe we misunderstood JA and he meant something other than what we are thinking he said ? Unless he's saying that EVERYBODY has to take into account market grading.

Not sure I understand...what "emergency issues" are you talking about ?

I actually can't blame him for the prices. And I agree, compared to others, he's much more honest and upfront. He has costs to air the programs...create the infomercial....overhead etc. They ARE informative, especially for novices/newbies. My only problem is he talks about buying the coins in bulk and getting a great discount for the buyers, who may not realize they are paying a premium. I would rather he talk up the mystery, history, and great look of the (Saint/Liberty) coins and just ignore the cost. Plus, with the internet, it might not be that difficult for anybody under the age of 75 to check the FMV.

This is the CAC price guide (for Saints), right ? https://www.caccoin.com/pop/?issue=20 Gold&type=St+Gaudens+No+Motto|St+Gaudens+Motto&desg=&title=Double Eagles&subtitle=St Gaudens (1907-1933)

You're right, I forgot....it only would have been at the Heritage booth. And I am pretty sure they didn't have it unless it was inside near the items they were auctioning, which I doubt. They brought so much stuff they probably figured no need to bring a dozen of the books to sell given all the other valuables they had with them.

You should be very proud, both books required an AMAZING amount of 1st-hand research to do. Nothing like either on so they are each invaluable research and reading tools. Thinking back, I'm kind of surprised I did not see the SAINTS book at the Wizard or Heritage sections at FUN 2020. Maybe they were there and I missed them. I know my main occupation at the Heritage booth was grabbing some of the catalogs since I didn't know if they charged for them.

Asking again....all the catalogs I have were years after the TPGs started grading. Only Heritage seems to have the grades prominently features in the 1st/opening sentence.

I could be wrong, but I'd say that except at the high-end for the super-rich collectors (who care for whatever reason), that the PCGS Premium has been coming DOWN (IMO) the last few years. The entire premium thing may have been -- for legit reasons or not -- PCGS was seen as grading conservatively and NGC was grading looser....or that's how people PERCEIVED it, true or not. For whatever reason, PCGS coins traded at a slight/noticeable premium. And now, for whatever reasons, I think the gap has closed. Aesthetically, I actually love some of the newer NGC labels and slabs. In fact, I wonder if part of the NGC "discount" was when they had that white slab that totally encircled the coin (I personally hate that look, sorry NGC ! ). Seriously, I do love the current NGC slabs and labels. Bought a few at FUN 2020 and from HA, GC, and Ebay the last year or so, far more than PCGS stuff, a reversal from 3-5 years or so ago.

Absolutely.....I need to read that book in a shorter period of time than the Saints book to more effectively absorb the material. I'll keep you posted.....

Not being a long-time vet, that's news to me. Feel free to give more color on that situation. Who or what were these "PCGS-only" dealers ? I know some dealers may have more PCGS and/or more CAC than others...but exclusive is news to me.

Do we know of any other "filled" mintmarks from New Orleans ?? Almost looks like a screw head. BTW, is that Morgan in a GSA holder ? I see black on the edges surrounding it.