Just Bob

Just an observation: I wonder, if this coin had been raw, and had been posted by a newbie touting his new acquisition that Grandpa left him in his will, how many of us would have immediately told them that the coin had been cleaned. The coin does have hairlines, and it does have gunk in the protected areas, and it does look like many coins that have been posted on this forum that were pronounced "cleaned." But, being that it is already in one of our host's slabs, do we automatically give it the benefit of the doubt? 

Just food for thought.

Dude, you need help.

On 5/14/2023 at 8:58 AM, zadok said:

...if fake, wouldnt that mean the chop marks have to be fake also?...r not the chop marks meant to mean that the coin has the correct percentage of silver?....

Colin Gulberg is the author of "Chopmarked Coins - a History" (iAssure Group JEAN Publications 2014)

Copy/paste from a Numismatic News article dated  5/26/2016:

Collectors should be aware there are counterfeit chopmarked Trade dollars, said Gullberg.

“Now huge numbers of fakes are coming out of China and faked chops are just another way to fool buyers into thinking the coin is genuine,” he said. “After all, a chopped Trade dollar usually sells at a discount then no one would deliberately try to reduce the selling price, right?”

Fake

Welcome to the forum. Although it may not seem possible that a silver coin that is 50 or 80 years old is only worth the price of the precious metal that it contains, it is true. Supply and demand, along with condition, rarity, and collector interest are major factors in determining value. Although all of these coins are nice to have in your collection, none are rare or in great demand. If the offers you have gotten are in line with the amounts given by the previous posters, you have not been given the run-around, in my opinion. If they are considerably less, and you still want to sell your coins, you might consider listing them on the Marketplace forum on this site. I'm sure several people would be interested in them at $7-8 a piece.

On 5/10/2023 at 9:23 PM, JKK said:

The top image is rotated about 100 degrees clockwise, which makes it hard to read the date. The bottom image is rotated about 160 degrees clockwise, which also makes it hard to read. It's definitely Tonk, and the date is AH 13xx. It looks like 1311, and if a rupee (it appears to be), that's an issue because the dates for Y#28 include only one that is credible here: AH 1329. I think that's what it is and that we're not able to see the little cup that turns a 1 into a 2. AH 1330 is also a slim possibility; I see zero chance it could be anything later, as they skip to the 1340s and that vertical stroke pretty much could not be a 4.

To confirm that it's a rupee, weigh it and I'd suggest subtracting 2g for the flip and staples. The standard weight is said to vary from 10.7 to 11.6g.

The Numista entry creates some confusion because the image they show gives a date in CE rather than AH, and that's not true of your coin. Yet the hard and fast reality is the 13xx, which according to KM can only apply to Y#28. It is possible, even likely, that there's a variant not being shown in either place. If you want to have a dig through zeno.ru, look under the Indian Princely State of Tonk and search for rupees, and see which one most nearly matches what you have. That leaf is a dead Tonk giveaway.

On 5/11/2023 at 9:04 AM, JKK said:

I'm going to look deeper. I think the date is 1311, more likely 1312 or 1313 and that it's older than people thought. Now that I see it properly oriented (well done), I have a very hard time with the dating as discussed. No one seems to have seen the 8 in front of 13, for example, but I haven't looked to see just how far back Tonk rupees go. It obviously cannot be 8131 or 81312. I can't find the zarb, quite but can definitely read the name 'Ali (stands out like a neon sign).

On 5/11/2023 at 5:24 PM, JKK said:

Okay. My best guess is Y#20, AH 1312 or 1313. There was no AH 1314, which is the only other reasonable possibility. The image in KM has only modest overlap in the strike (common with these, where the actual die was far wider than the flan) with your coin. Nice piece. Tonk is pretty common, but it's still an appealing coin. The weight is where it should be, so that's good.

To paraphrase Larry the Cable Guy: I don't care who you are, that's just impressive right there.

On 5/2/2023 at 5:22 PM, Newenglandrarities said:

I cannot do that here on the forum, as counterfeiters have “trolled” the coin forums to know what is wrong with their modern fakes, and have improved many to fool a lot of smart people.  

Thank you for confirming what I and a few others have been saying for years. I just wish that we could convince others on this website who insist on pointing out every wrong detail that they can find on the numerous fakes that we see here. They apparently don't believe (and some have stated it outright) that the counterfeiters read these forums. What they don't seem to understand is that I believe it isn't just some Chinese guy with a basement coin press who is watching the boards; it is the American sellers who are constantly trying to have the products improved so they can fool even the experts. Those fake coppers that Charmy posted which fooled the graders and finalizers and made it into PCGS and NGC slabs should have every one of us worried.

Not more than 45 minutes ago, I looked up the cert number on a PCGS MS64 Morgan that my grandson was looking at to buy. It was a fake, in a fake PCGS Gold Shield slab, and a very convincing one.

This token has nothing to do with slavery as an institution. It is given to a server in a restaurant instead of cash due to the belief of some people that working for tips is a form of slavery. 

The fact that the designer's initials are very faint leads me to believe it is over polishing.

In 1917, Lucius O. Crosby and Lamont Rowlands bought the property of R.J Williams, which consisted of a sawmill and mercantile. The store became the C&R Mercantile, and in 1924, the name was changed to The C&R Stores. The main location was in Picayune, Mississippi, and at various times, there were branch locations in 11 different towns, including Blodgett, two tokens of which are shown below. Tokens for this branch were issued in denominations of 10 cents, 25 cents, and one dollar, with two different varieties known for the dollar denomination. All types are listed as R9 (2 to 3 known) in the MS token book.

On 5/2/2023 at 5:09 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I cant see them on my phone. May be where im using a phone instead of a computer. 

They aren't on my phone, but they are on my laptop. (By the way, you have a star, and your title is "Proficient.")

Not crazy about the graphics, but the titles are fine. I like them much better than the "titles" that were on here years ago. Some of those were just plain silly.

May I intrude here to ask a question? The link above provided by the OP shows only one of these coins graded by NGC, and it graded PF69. The coin pictured is graded Gem Proof UC. Is this the same coin? Is "Gem Proof" counted in the census as a 69?

After a very quick search, the oldest coin I found was a 1723 Woods Hibernia 1/2 P in MS 64RD. There are three shown in that grade. I may have missed an earlier one, but I don't think so.

Edited to add: I would not be at all surprised if one of the three coins graded MS64 RD at NGC turned out to be the same one graded at PCGS. Crossovers seem to be the norm these days.

I wonder if the rest of the coins in the bag are also counterfeit.

On 4/28/2023 at 9:04 AM, Thirteenth said:

Just to close this one out.

 

After the Initial post I reached out to a collector of American Rarities, who agreed to pay me $2500 for the coin.

They send it to CAC where it received a Green sticker , meaning it is accurately graded and on the upper end of the MS64s out there.

Thanks to everyone that expressed interest.  I'm glad the coin went to someone who can appreciate not only the coin itself, but the early generation NGC holder that it is in.

 

Well done! 

On 4/27/2023 at 12:07 AM, EagleRJO said:

I don't think it's a replica, which I have seen before.  The coin has sharp details which are a spot on match with certified examples for that year and mark, and it does not have either the newly struck appearance or mushy details like the attached replica trade dollar example.

 

Not all fakes look like the one you posted. I agree with Rash. I think the chopmarked piece posted above is a fake.

1943 cents are made of steeI, with a very thin layer of zinc on each side. Zinc corrodes, and steel rusts, so, in the past, it was a very common practice for sellers to replate them with zinc, making them shinier and prettier for sale to collectors. I have a feeling that is what you have, and any anomalies are the result of the plating, or perhaps corrosion forming under the plating. Take a look at the edge of your coin. If it looks relatively smooth and uniform, your coin has been replated.