Extremely Rare Proof Irish Pennies 1 1

[gmarguli]

Just picked up these two. They are something that you very rarely see. Proof Irish pennies. They were struck as mint record coins. No record of their mintage, but likely only a few examples for each date.

 

[Henri Charriere]

7 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

Just picked up these two. They are something that you very rarely see. Proof Irish pennies. They were struck as mint record coins. No record of their mintage, but likely only a few examples for each date.

 

I like the narrative... rarely seen; struck as Mint record coins, but nobody knows how many were made. Interesting.  I am going to defer to the expertise of fellow members who may be interested in solving this mystery. So what parameter is used to determine FMV and whether one paid little, or too much? Surely, someone must know.

[RWB]

Nice! I happen to prefer the rejected 1927 (?) designs, but they are tough to locate. There is a group I cataloged by Paul Manship. I think, in the Smithsonian.

Edited April 5, 2021 by RWB

[World Colonial]

Sounds similar to the British "proofs of record" from about the same time period.  At least, that's the term Heritage has used in auction descriptions.

[zadok]

nice finds gm.....yep very seldom offered on the market, the '63 bit rarer than the '62....the ireland off year proofs extremely tuff to collect....the free state prohibitive (cept for the '28s), republic a bit more more available, decimals common....n yes the morbiducci proofs (all r patterns from 1927) even tuffer yet, most in museum collection in dublin n family collection in rome, a few on the collector market, farouk had few in his collection...ireland poof collectors in rarified air....great pick ups congrats.....

[Fenntucky Mike]

Great get, lovely coins!

Any non True View pics?

[Henri Charriere]

37 minutes ago, zadok said:

.....yep very seldom offered on the market,....'63 bit rarer than the '62....ireland off year proofs extremely tuff to collect....republic a bit more available, decimals common....n yes the morbid' proofs ....even tuffer yet, most in museum collection in dublin n family collection in rome, a few on the collector market,....had few in his collection... in rarified air....

This is in no way to dissect the recollections of anyone -- least of all the Great Zadok -- but what enquiring minds (like mine) want to know is why no one seems to know precisely how many of these were minted?  Any why no one seems to know why, or care?  The two shared by the OP were not fashioned by primitive means at obscure mints.  These are modern coins.  What paperwork was relied upon by the TPGS in authenticating these.  Where are the records? The ledgers? The memoirs of the coiners and die makers? If, say, twelve more were to show up as a part of The Great Belfast Hoard, would anyone question it?  Could anyone?  What was the Mint director's name?  No moot points; I am looking for hard facts!  Anyone?

[zadok]

8 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

This is in no way to dissect the recollections of anyone -- least of all the Great Zadok -- but what enquiring minds (like mine) want to know is why no one seems to know precisely how many of these were minted?  Any why no one seems to know why, or care?  The two shared by the OP were not fashioned by primitive means at obscure mints.  These are modern coins.  What paperwork was relied upon by the TPGS in authenticating these.  Where are the records? The ledgers? The memoirs of the coiners and die makers? If, say, twelve more were to show up as a part of The Great Belfast Hoard, would anyone question it?  Could anyone?  What was the Mint director's name?  No moot points; I am looking for hard facts!  Anyone?

most knowledgeable collectors can discern a proof or specimen striking from a normal circulation or business striking coin, the irish mint simply did not maintain hard records of proof n specimen strikings, nor did the bank of ireland who more or less sponsored some of the specimen n vip issues...similar to the record keeping of isle of man coinage....as far as prices, they r mostly determined by auction results, the old supply n demand basis....to be more precise, since u bring up the issue, i personally did contact a retired mintmaster from the irish mint at the ny international coin show a few decades ago n did purchase  what irish off year proofs he personally owned....over the years i have coordinated extensively proof finds with prob the most regarded expert on irish proof coinage, john stafford-langan....he has virtually all the documented info there is on these issues n it is very sparse....the totals know for almost any year/denominations is often in single digits n seldom more than a couple dozen even in the republic years, the 1960s issues the most prolific....these proofs have appreciated in multiples over the past twenty years, e.g. the previously discussed morbiducci patterns have gone from mid 4 figure prices to low 5 figure prices during that time....

[Just Bob]

Great pickups! 

[Coinbuf]

Very cool newps, congrats!

[gmarguli]

17 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Great get, lovely coins!

Any non True View pics?

No non-TrueView pics. My macro camera lens just died and apparently everyone during the pandemic wants to take close up pics and the lenses are backordered for 2+ months. 

I will say that colors of the 1963 is very accurate. The 1962 colors are a little more muted than the picture. 

[thebeav]

They certainly are pretty !

[Alex in PA.]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:11 PM, gmarguli said:

I will say that colors of the 1963 is very accurate.

Stunning color; on both of them.  Nice.