French 20-franc gold rooster 1 1

[VKurtB]

Serious question: in your travels have you seen piles and piles of lower range MS Roosters? I guess what I’m asking is whether the vast majority that is ungraded Coq Marianne are that way because their owners just don’t get them graded, because condition is immaterial to them, or that some event or events rendered them ill-suited for grading? I suspect it’s the former, but WW2 storage and moving about may have exacted some physical insult upon massive numbers of them. Of course whichever it is, I suppose the same answer would apply for all LMU 20’s, with the possible exception of neutral Switzerland. I’ve never seen a bad Swiss Vreneli. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:54 PM, VKurtB said:

Serious question: in your travels have you seen piles and piles of lower range MS Roosters? I guess what I’m asking is whether the vast majority that is ungraded Coq Marianne are that way because their owners just don’t get them graded, because condition is immaterial to them, or that some event or events rendered them ill-suited for grading? I suspect it’s the former, but WW2 storage and moving about may have exacted some physical insult upon massive numbers of them. Of course whichever it is, I suppose the same answer would apply for all LMU 20’s, with the possible exception of neutral Switzerland. I’ve never seen a bad Swiss Vreneli. 

...u over looked the obvious answer...there r only a few dozen collectors of the series in the world...no buyers therefore no sellers n therefore fewer certs...i literally see a few hundred raw roosters every year virtually all in mint state, about the most circulated example u will see is one that was used in jewelry....

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:34 PM, VKurtB said:

And neither is SBF, other than to complain about his jail diet. Vegan? What the… ? He should be happy with kosher. 

When you come right down to it, he hasn't many options to consider: roll over and spill his guts on everyone and everything he knows--or become a long-term resident, courtesy of the U.S. government.

[VKurtB]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:17 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

When you come right down to it, he hasn't many options to consider: roll over and spill his guts on everyone and everything he knows--or become a long-term resident, courtesy of the U.S. government.

What if he is what I believe he is? The embodiment of evil. No one to roll on. He’s the rollee, not the roller. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:13 AM, VKurtB said:

What if he is what I believe he is? The embodiment of evil. No one to roll on. He’s the rollee, not the roller. 

My considered opinion: he is not smart enough to be Evil.  This schlub will tell them everything they want to know.  The real shame of all this is a lot of people lost a lot of money on something they cannot even begin to explain.

[GoldFinger1969]

We should talk about SBF and Crypto in the SBF Crypto Thread. 

Keep this on Roosters ! 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/16/2022 at 12:32 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

We should talk about SBF and Crypto in the SBF Crypto Thread. 

Keep this on Roosters ! 

You want to talk Roosters. Fine, let me relate something I did within the past week that ought to pique someone's interest...

I made a gentleman an offer I was absolutely convinced he would not refuse.  As you may recall, I have eight (8) Restrike Roosters on my NGC Set Registry.  My compilation is "complete" for my purposes.  But I am an impatient collector. If I can't go get something, I rely on an old stand-by: my crafty mind.  There is a coin another collector has that I want.  It's a Top Pop (here anyway) so he's not going to give it up.  I then made him an offer: I will upgrade 3 of your restrikes to MS-66, for his coin. He did not deem my offer worthy of a reply. To put this in perspective: I was offering him 3 coins very lovely MS-66 coins, for no more than its melt value for his coin which could never exceed the total list value of mine. (No response.) 

The # 1 guy here added a coin, same make and model as mine, leaving him with only one "hole" left to fill: the 1900 which is the rarest, by mintage in the series.  I had already rather successfully deluded myself into believing it was he who acquired the two mystery Roosters which were both graded an unprecedented MS-68 on the West Coast, only to be swiftly submitted and successfully cross-graded at NGC, and was biding his time to acquire the two finest examples with which to fills his "holes" for the scarcer two earliest years.  Apparently, I misjudged. He got one; but that was it.  I concluded the Great z was right.  I should forgetten about them.

However, re # 1 Rooster collector here. Am I his equal if not his superior?  Possibly.

Yesterday, I wrote PCGS and confided the problem I have:  the rather amateurish photos accompanying my compilation in my inventory and album have made me the laughingstock of collectors everywhere.  Determined to change my lot, I inquired as to how the problem could be resolved amicably, and they told me...

First, membership: the cheapest, last I checked, is $69.  [Faithful viewers will recall that that was one of the pet peeves of NS&G (my spirited defense of whom had be exiled from the Board once)].  But I digress.  My entire collection would have to be "submitted" to the very folks who graded them!  it's entire contents, cracked out, photographed and re-holdered.  There is also the small matter of the "gold shield" which is not an option. Display is mandatory.

Okay, $69 + (18 x 16, or $288 for re-encapsulation (sporting the new computer chip anti-counterfeiting NFT w/ photos, gold shield (16 X 5, or $80, for a grand total of $437. exclusive of the sundry things like, postage, handling, insurance, etc.  I assume this picture-taking gambit, when thru, will soar north of $500. and the only thing on my mind is: WHAT IF THE SHIPMENT IS IRREPARABLY DAMAGED OR IRRETRIEVABLY LOST?  THEN WHAT?

For lack of anything better to do, I shifted my focus to NGC.  If I am successful and come up with a substantial addition to cement my reputation as the chief custodian of the finest 20-franc gold rooster series, what would it cost to make the transition here?  Well, it would necessarily entail cross-grading all 16 coins. And photos? Shipping? Insurance? Loss? Damage?  And what if a big-ticket item fails to cross?  So you see my friends, nothing comes easy.  Mind you, whatever I decide, regards little more than visual esthetics.

I am undecided on what to do.  In the meantime, I will be keeping my eyes open for top-tier Roosters.  If I acquire one or two, I will have accomplished one major goal in my life.  Will I forgo NYINC?  It'll all boil down to whim.  I even have a strategy frequent show-goers may find off-putting:  Arming myself and my quiet-as-a-church house mouse with a photograph of a F20FGR, and a simple query:  Top-Pops, Yes? or No? Simple.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Quintus Arrius

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/17/2022 at 4:03 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Will I forgo NYINC?  It'll all boil down to whim.  I even have a strategy frequent show-goers may find off-putting:  Arming myself and my quiet-as-a-church house mouse with a photograph of a F20FGR, and a simple query:  Top-Pops, Yes? or No? Simple.

As it is looking unlikely I can get down to FUN 2023, NYINC may be a consolation prize.  If others from here or in cyberspace are interested, maybe we can all get together during the gathering. 

[VKurtB]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:06 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As it is looking unlikely I can get down to FUN 2023, NYINC may be a consolation prize.  If others from here or in cyberspace are interested, maybe we can all get together during the gathering. 

My wife STEADFASTLY refuses to consent to a trip to NYC. Same reason as Warsaw last year. That was unreasonably close to risk of unspeakable violence. She sees NYC precisely the same way now. Same perps. Marxists. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

Me? I’d feel orders of magnitude safer in Warsaw, with Russian cruise missiles hitting 50 miles away, than walking on Park Avenue in the evening now. 

[Henri Charriere]

Marxists?  Just down the block from the Waldorf-Astoria?      

Now if you'd've said the old Speed Graphic were on the fritz, I could go for that but... then again, maybe you're right. The Leninists are partial to East 49th Street.  

Good thing you told me. I don't want to pick up a rare Rooster from some guy in a trench coat only to be charged with "providing material support to the enemy."  

  The problem of crime in the city is strictly one of perception.  Crime is still way down overall from the peak crack epidemic years, but don't forget there were no cellphones, cameras all over the place (even on the trains and buses) and license plate readers at all the bridges and tunnels.  On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd put the area around Grand Central and midtown conservatively at 9.7 after you throw in everything else in all five boroughs. 

[VKurtB]

Is it still Giuliani years safe? That’s my standard. Zero tolerance policing safe. I see coverage of random baseball bat and pipe  beatings. Not safe enough. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:47 AM, VKurtB said:

Is it still Giuliani years safe? That’s my standard. Zero tolerance policing safe. I see coverage of random baseball bat and pipe  beatings. Not safe enough. 

C'mon now, Kurt!  We're talking millions of people. If it'll make you happy, I'll be like that Cohen guy: I'll take a bullet for you.  . I guess I'm different from you.  If I so much as hear of a dangerous location I can't wait to go there and see what's going on.  What you usually find are people loitering amid an air of menace.  Beats sitting on a porch in a rocking chair.  

[VKurtB]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:03 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

C'mon now, Kurt!  We're talking millions of people. If it'll make you happy, I'll be like that Cohen guy: I'll take a bullet for you.  . I guess I'm different from you.  If I so much as hear of a dangerous location I can't wait to go there and see what's going on.  What you usually find are people loitering amid an air of menace.  Beats sitting on a porch in a rocking chair.  

Then what’s the use of HAVING a porch? BTW, no rockers. All wicker. I am not a “city person” anymore. I escaped from Reading, PA in my 30’s, and aside from a stint in Harrisburg, I swore I’d never live in a city again. Not my bag. When I go to Manhattan, IF I ever do again (getting more unlikely by the year) it’ll be by Port Imperial ferry or via Amtrak and Penn Station. I am so loathe to cross the Hudson that when I fly to Europe, it’ll be with an Amtrak connection at Newark Airport. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

Looks like you haven't been through Penn Station in awhile.  It's like walking through Kolkata, when it was still spelled Calcutta.  One giant homeless encampment, only this time the people who dwell there openly, using the sidewalks and streets as they wish, are dangerously mentally ill, speak out loud to themselves and are prone to act out violently and unprovoked.  Are you sure you could manage to live just fine without that sort of impromptu street revelry,?  

.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing.

[VKurtB]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:32 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Looks like you haven't been through Penn Station in awhile.  It's like walking through Kolkata, when it was still spelled Calcutta.  One giant homeless encampment, only this time the people who dwell there openly, using the sidewalks and streets as they wish, are dangerously mentally ill, speak out loud to themselves and are prone to act out violently and unprovoked.  Are you sure you could manage to live just fine without that sort of impromptu street revelry,?  

.

My ideas of entertainment have changed. My now wife and I took the LIRR JFK link from Penn Station on Thanksgiving Day 2019 to go to Portugal then England. TAP Airlines. I swore I’d never go that way again, but Penn Station was far from the worst of it. That honor goes to JFK per se. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:37 PM, VKurtB said:

My ideas of entertainment have changed. My now wife and I took the LIRR JFK link from Penn Station on Thanksgiving Day 2019 to go to Portugal then England. TAP Airlines. I swore I’d never go that way again, but Penn Station was far from the worst of it. That honor goes to JFK per se. 

I haven't been to Kennedy in years.  One thing that sticks out in my mind in an interview that was done with a gentleman who, trapped at the airport for unspecified reasons, i.e., lack of money, required documents, etc., chose to simply make do with what he had and had apparently been living at the airport for years.  Getting stuck at the airport is not an unusual occurrence, but "residing" there is.  He was resigned to his fate without complaint.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Late-stage die polishing

[VKurtB]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:45 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I haven't been to Kennedy in years.  One thing that sticks out in my mind in an interview that was done with a gentleman who, trapped at the airport for unspecified reasons, i.e., lack of money, required documents, etc., chose to simply make do with what he had and had apparently been living at the airport for years.  Getting stuck at the airport is not an unusual occurrence, but "residing" there is.  He was seized to his fate without complaint.

Yup, a baaaaad place, and that’s even considering I had Thanksgiving dinner at the TWA hotel at JFK that day. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:34 PM, VKurtB said:

And neither is SBF, other than to complain about his jail diet. Vegan? What the… ? He should be happy with kosher. 

[As you may have heard, he has since been released on a quarter-million dollar OR bond and sadly conceded he "only had a hundred thousand dollars in his bank account."  At your direction, I would be happy to set up a gofundme for this unkempt schlub who shows up at a Federal court arraignment in a dark suit and white shirt sans necktie. Sheesh!]

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/22/2022 at 6:50 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[As you may have heard, he has since been released on a quarter-million dollar OR bond 

Reportedly, quarter BILLION ($250 MM) bond.  But his partents only had to put up their home as collateral.

Edited December 23, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/23/2022 at 1:00 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Reportedly, quarter BILLION ($250 MM) bond.  But his partents only had to put up their home as collateral.

At the very least that means some of his savvy, inquisitive, knowledgeable former investors have a shot at recovering their losses.  (His sidekick can use an Oprah Winfrey make-over.)

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:37 PM, VKurtB said:

My ideas of entertainment have changed. My now wife and I took the LIRR JFK link from Penn Station on Thanksgiving Day 2019 to go to Portugal then England. TAP Airlines. I swore I’d never go that way again, but Penn Station was far from the worst of it. That honor goes to JFK per se. 

[UPDATE:  The opening of East Side Access (which I doubt you will ever need to use) has been delayed another month.  You may vaguely recall it involves connecting the LIRR's Main Line (out to Jamaica, and beyond) directly to Grand Central Terminal on the city's east side. I assumed it would be a 4-track job but it's 8 tracks.  One other odd fact, to build it into Manhattan from Queens, it had to be really deep, and boy is it!  Some 175' feet deep, or twice the depth of the bedrock when all the wreckage was removed from the WTC site after 9/11.  As it stands, the deepest point in GCT was always the super-secret nerve center reportedly built at a depth of 90'.  

Incidentally, I have doubled the number of sources to resume my set building and though I've gotten acknowledgments, the horizon is a desert.  I am giving it 90 days.  The intense monitoring of all that goes on in cyberspace is a bit much for me.  After that?  Who knows?  It'll be spring.  My thoughts will turn to other things.  

 

[EagleRJO]

Interesting that I just stumbled onto a thread with info about upgrades to rail systems that I use.  

[Henri Charriere]

To those of you, members, seasoned veterans--and lurkers, who've welcomed me back with open arms, drones, blimps, passenger pigeons, and light planes  trailing banners over my house, my heartfelt gratitude!  Is Moderation great or what? (Man I love this place!)

Not one given to gloating, I thought I would mention as unobtrusively as possible two developments regarding my specialty.  One, I never paid much attention to it at the time but a pattern, a unique 1898 "essai" with a rendering on one side--the reverse side left blank--on an octagonal gold plate is available for acquisition for roughly $30,000 from a well-known "Rolls-Royce of coin sellers" in Europe who makes getting into the NSA by comparision a breeze, what with checks, counter-checks, bank references and the like. 

The other concerns something unexpected: the re-emergence of the first two Roosters, a 1908 and 1912, ever graded MS-68, at least to my knowledge, first at PCGS, and almost immediately cross-graded thereafter by NGC.  Neither has yet to appear in any Set Registry.  There are those who will recall that a prominent gentleman here stated they would never be seen again. But quietly withdrawn from both the census and population, they have both recently reappeared on the NGC census without fanfare.

I think I should mention that [likely] unbeknownst to the member who posed the question a few years back, in substance, What preparations have you made for your heirs, one member did something that can only warm the cockles of one's heart: he had begun set registries presumably for each member of his brood.  His compilations occupy 4 of the top ten plus eight others.  A record number of 47 individuals presently are compiling French 20-franc gold roosters.  And with gold hovering tantalizingly at the $2,000/oz. level earlier this week (Rooster melt at barely a fifth of an ounce hovers at $350.) now may be as good a time to BOLO for those who may wish to engage in profit-taking.  Truth be told, despite an international dragnet, I have been unable to acquire a single Rooster for upgrading purposes.

[GoldFinger1969]

Welcome back, QA....the NGC Forums without you is like "Seinfeld" without Kramer !!  

Now if we can just get rid of those newcomers who post once asking about a coin they insist is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars.....that's our "Newman" !! 

Edited March 24, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[Zebo]

Back from Time out? Did you sit in the corner the whole time?

now is an excellent time for high grade roosters to come out. Same with sovereigns.

[Henri Charriere]

Having graduated from elementary school with highest honors (a boast that sounds nice but is laughable on its face) I thought I would conduct a survey of the census as it relates to 20-franc gold roosters in the MS66 and MS67 ranges.  Recently (before my latest expulsion from NGC) I was apprised of a nice cache of gold coins found in Europe and anticipated the inevitable dump both here and elsewhere.  But something funny happened on the way to the Forum.  The numbers here did not increase or stay the same; they decreased!  The figures cited, spanning less than 90 days, illustrate my point:

 MS66    old / new / diff.

1907      74 /   65    -  9

1908       95 /   81   -14

1909      108 / 107   - 1

1910        74 /   70    - 4

1911        60 /   59     -1

1912        66 /   57     -9

1913         61 /  57     -4

1914       126 / 102   -24

Note:  I will present the MS67 figures as opportunity avails for both top TPGS.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Quintus Arrius
Correct misspelling.

[J P M]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:44 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Having graduated from elementary school with highest honors (a boast that sounds nice but is laughable on its face) I thought I would conduct a survey of the census as it relates to 20-franc gold roosters in the MS66 and MS67 ranges.  Recently (before my latest expulsion from NGC) I was apprised of a nice cache of gold coins found in Europe and anticipated the inevitable dump both here and elsewhere.  But something funny happened on the way to the Forum.  The numbers here did not increase or stay the same; they decreased!  The figures cited, spanning less than 90 days, illustrate my point:

 MS66    old / new / diff.

1907      74 /   65    -  9

1908       95 /   81   -14

1909      108 / 107   - 1

1910        74 /   70    - 4

1911        60 /   59     -1

1912        66 /   57     -9

1913         61 /  57     -4

1914       126 / 102   -24

Note:  I will present the MS67 figures as opportunity avails for both top TPGS.

Perhaps in the last 90 days a collector or two has passed and there roosters flew the coop.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/24/2023 at 3:11 PM, Zebo said:

now is an excellent time for high grade roosters to come out. Same with sovereigns.

Why do you say that ?   Any particular reason ?  

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:02 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Why do you say that ?   Any particular reason ?  

Buy low; sell high. No?  If not now, when?  If not here and now?  Where?