Saw this while watching RCTV and wanted to share it with the board.
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Started by Walkerfan,

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Walkerfan

Walkerfan

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Posted (edited)

This is why I still like to watch Rick Tomaska.  He always has something interesting on his show!  Here is our own NGC President Mark Salzberg opening up and authenticating an original mint-sealed bag of Kennedys issued on the first day (03/19/1964).  NGC soft-graded them Brilliant Uncirculated and Choice Brilliant Uncirculated.  Rick was offering the choice examples, which are basically in the MS 63 range, for about $500 a piece.  They had the special Kennedy label, too, with the first day of issue designation.  It was a very interesting piece of Kennedy and U.S. coinage history.  

Edited by Walkerfan
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Quintus Arrius

Quintus Arrius

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Here it is over a year later and I am finding out about this right now. I wish just once someone would sit me down and walk me thru this FMV.  This bucket's been lying around somewhere in someone's attic for half a century. For 50 years the public, I assume, is unaware of its existence and then suddenly the market -- till then deprived of the privilege of owning any of these last-year-of-silver, FS's, is suddenly flooded with however many of these come in a Mint-sealed bag, and the price for these are set at this precise, astronomical, well-rounded price... how? How was demand perceived? Extraordinarily rare First Strikes suddenly available after 50 years. Granted, most unusual. How many of these First Strikes were available before the dump? None. The burden of proof is on the owner and I seriously doubt anyone will be able to magically produce the required documentation. And, not to be rude or impertinent, but how did the original owner profit from something he'd never laid his eyes on?  FMV, how? A pre-market poll? A secret sit-down somewhere? No collusion? Fine, so how?

Five hundred bucks, exclusive of sales tax, fifty years later... How was demand determined?  I'm a certified newbie. I'm all ears 👂. Anyone?

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Treeman

Treeman

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First Day of Issue, Early Release, Special Holder, ....  Remember when collectors would buy the coin, not the holder? Seems that, these days, the plastic brings more than the coin. Maybe HSN Mike Mazak is smarter that I thought.....

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RWB

RWB

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On 8/13/2021 at 12:42 PM, Treeman said:

First Day of Issue, Early Release,

These statements are not provable.

Edited by RWB
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Just Bob

Just Bob

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On 8/12/2021 at 7:57 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

 FMV, how? A pre-market poll? How was demand determined?  

That is exactly how it was done. They sent out questionnaires to collectors all across the United States. I don't understand why you don't know about this. They sent mailers to everyone they considered to be of any significance whatsoever to the Hobby. Did you not get one?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:devil:

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Quintus Arrius

Quintus Arrius

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On 8/13/2021 at 1:56 PM, RWB said:

These statements are not provable.

I guess I am very gullible. I personally have no problem the submitter met the burden of proof required for certification with a chain of documentary tangible evidence: Official U.S.M. canvas bags, intact seals, and tags date-stamped, with a videotaped unveiling with at least two eyewitnesses. I am sure the "evidence" was retained to assert the claim made by a top TPGS, but if not, what do you feel is lacking?  

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Quintus Arrius

Quintus Arrius

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@Just Bob I like my scenario: after major coin conventions, a select group of numismaticians meet, by invitation only, at a secret, undisclosed location to set the various quarterly industry-related commodities prices. And marketing takes it from there to convince the public and consumers to jump in, don't wait, get in on the ground-floor and buy, Buy, BUY! before this unprecedented once-in-a-lifetime offer expires. To echo Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption: "Alright then, who's going to prove me wrong?"

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RWB

RWB

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Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2021 at 4:24 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I guess I am very gullible. I personally have no problem the submitter met the burden of proof required for certification with a chain of documentary tangible evidence: Official U.S.M. canvas bags, intact seals, and tags date-stamped, with a videotaped unveiling with at least two eyewitnesses. I am sure the "evidence" was retained to assert the claim made by a top TPGS, but if not, what do you feel is lacking?  

The materials available do not support the descriptions. Ask the TPG to show you copies of all the tags, seals, etc. Then, go do some original research.

Edited by RWB
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Quintus Arrius

Quintus Arrius

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On 8/13/2021 at 5:01 PM, RWB said:

The materials available do not support the descriptions. As the TPG to show you copies of all the tags, seals, etc. Then, go do some original research.

That's a pretty provocative statement, and challenge. (I think I'll let my better half, the boss, handle this.) 😉

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Mohawk

Mohawk

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On 8/13/2021 at 2:50 PM, gmarguli said:

A Choice BU one recently sold <$100 on eBay. 

I'm sorry, but garbage like this flat out harms the coin community. Uneducated grandmas buy this stuff for their coin collector grandchild. 

You're absolutely right.  I can't tell you how many hearts I had to break and hopes I had to dash when I worked at the brick and mortar shop with stuff like this.  People would bring things like this, stuff from Littleton, stuff bought off the TV and we'd have to tell them what they had was either worthless or worth far less than they paid for it.  And some of these people really needed some significant money when they came to sell to us.  But we couldn't help them.  In this hobby, and in life, there are many things which are legal but which aren't necessarily ethical.  If NGC certifies these coins with a special label, that's more than fine, but to sell these coins for such a high markup over what an ordinary uncirculated 1964-D Kennedy sells for, I have a big issue with that. I just don't see what makes them worth that kind of a markup.

Edited by Mohawk
Typo
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Jason Abshier

Jason Abshier

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Posted
On 8/12/2021 at 8:57 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Five hundred bucks, exclusive of sales tax, fifty years later... How was demand determined?  I'm a certified newbie. I'm all ears 👂. Anyone?

Demands ? Won’t change the “smart collectors” know not to shell out $500 for a basic 1964 Kennedy half dollar . If you look back at Morgan dollars there several morgans with wacky labels they came from a “so called hoard” they aren’t even worth more than a Morgan with a “Plain Jane” label and grade . Collecting about being smart not dumb with a pocket full of cash to waste on wasteful buying … seems like in market we have some so called believers there will be a market for wacky labels and plastic slabs . They ain’t different than the PCGS cult followers and preachers who pass out the “mind controlling kool-aid” to the newer collectors getting into the collecting  hobby 

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Mr.Bill347

Mr.Bill347

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First thing you learn is do not buy anything from the “coin guy” or RCTV, or Etsy, or HSN, they are all rip offs, they buy TONS of coins, bulk grade them and sell them for huge profits! Especially anything on Facebook, No different than those that buy mint limited issues and turn right around a sell the guarantee for a future minting at triple the cost. I hate these guys. I would purchase from any ANA dealer ten times as fast as I would these guys. Example bought a nice 2009 ASE proof for $40 from an ANA dealer in Tennessee last month.

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numisport

numisport

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On 8/15/2021 at 11:25 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

First thing you learn is do not buy anything from the “coin guy” or RCTV, or Etsy, or HSN, they are all rip offs, they buy TONS of coins, bulk grade them and sell them for huge profits! Especially anything on Facebook, No different than those that buy mint limited issues and turn right around a sell the guarantee for a future minting at triple the cost. I hate these guys. I would purchase from any ANA dealer ten times as fast as I would these guys. Example bought a nice 2009 ASE proof for $40 from an ANA dealer in Tennessee last month.

Really what kind of dealer would sell you a fake 2009 Proof ASE ?

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Jason Abshier

Jason Abshier

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On 8/15/2021 at 1:19 PM, numisport said:

Really what kind of dealer would sell you a fake 2009 Proof ASE ?

We all seen the dealers on tv trying to sell a gold coin when we know it’s more like “gold plated” a worthless coin only meant for a collector to put in a small glass box on his table as a reminder how his beloved wife got ripped off by a TV coin dealer trying to impress him with a so called “if its to good to be true it must be deal” … there are fakes floating around everywhere even on bourse floor at coin show not all dealers are skillful at spotting fakes they are human just like me and you (although we share in common we hate fakes !) 

don’t laugh I once got stopped outside a pawn shop after I was snooping around for coins back in 2009-2010 I didn’t buy anything that day but I was stopped while walking down sidewalk from the pen shop by a hustler trying to sell me gold buffalos that were looked to be gold plated they looked so bad ! He was asking for $1,100 each . Even a blind man could of seen they were fake knock offs with a plating job ! I told him sell them in the pawn shop see what owner says . He gave me a dirty look 

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VKurtB

VKurtB

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On 8/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I guess I am very gullible. I personally have no problem the submitter met the burden of proof required for certification with a chain of documentary tangible evidence: Official U.S.M. canvas bags, intact seals, and tags date-stamped, with a videotaped unveiling with at least two eyewitnesses. I am sure the "evidence" was retained to assert the claim made by a top TPGS, but if not, what do you feel is lacking?  

HE wasn’t present and he hasn’t seen a sheet on it in some NARA. 

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Mohawk

Mohawk

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On 8/15/2021 at 2:53 PM, 7.jaguars said:

Actually, Danny Carr has overstruck some 2009 Eagles as "proofs" and they sell somewhere around 120 and above...

Oh yeah...he did, didn't he.....they're selling for that much though?!  WOW!!

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