• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

When will Ikes time come?

157 posts in this topic

What is wrong with Ikes? they do not seem as popular as other dollar coins. Is the popularity of Ikes (Silver and Non-Silver) on the rise? or am I mistaken, and they have always been as popular as say a Morgan or Peace Dollar?

 

What are your thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, and this isn't my area of expertise (and even that is limited :grin: as I can't spend as much time on this hobby as I'd like), but the 1960's saw coin collecting get very popular and so when kids like me started in the 1970's there were TONS of these coins being made.

 

So appreciation except for rare mints and dates is pretty tough to come by.

 

Again, goes to my other post in the other thread: anything post-1945 and ESPECIALLY post-1960 when the Baby Boomers came of age and got money is going to be tough to appreciate. Yes, there are exceptions and when you come across a greatly-reduced number of a particular coin -- error, low mintage, rare date, other supply disruption -- it can make it fun and profitable. But these are very rare.

 

And you never know if or when the winds will change. Imagine buying a 1995-W Silver Eagle and paying a monstrous numismatic and scarcity premium. What if it falls just 10% in the future ? It'll dwarf you gains on dozens of other coins. If you are price-indifferent and just want a coin for collecting's sake and money is no object, then sure, who cares, buy it.

 

But most people aren't in that boat. I'm certainly not (wish I was :grin: ).

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has a poorly executed, ugly design and only gets worse with wear. Much more bland than the Bland dollars or the Peace dollars. I doubt it will ever be a popular collector's coin - and the profusion of minute split-hair varieties likely drive potential collectors away much as it has done with variety collecting of Morgans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has a poorly executed, ugly design...

You can stop right there, far as I'm concerned. Same goes for the Sacs.

Not as bad as the SBA

Those, too. I forgot those. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oddly enough I like the look of the Eisenhowers. They are only 50 years old though, tons were made and it seems from the time I was 6 they seemed slightly collectable. So the way some people socked them away coupled with their unpopularity as currency means there are tons of barely worn Eisenhower dollars out there. This includes the dozen to twenty I have.

 

Seem like everything from 100 years ago has some value now. So around 2070 I bet the Eisenhowers are worth (inflation adjusted) what an Indian Penny is worth now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is wrong with Ikes? they do not seem as popular as other dollar coins. Is the popularity of Ikes (Silver and Non-Silver) on the rise? or am I mistaken, and they have always been as popular as say a Morgan or Peace Dollar?

 

What are your thoughts?

 

There isn't anything "wrong" with Ikes. They just aren't as popular as their predecessors and there isn't any reason to consider it abnormal at all.

 

For a modern US coin, I have always liked it because it is large, but I cannot think of a single reason why anyone would pay any significant premium for one which is what you really mean by "popular".

 

The only reason any of them sell for large premiums is because of generic specialization practices in the US. I can see coins collected as part of a specialization increasing in price, such as certain die varieties, errors, toned coins and "grade rarities". The balance I see going absolutely nowhere.,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This 1971 Mint Set was my first set put together when I joined NGC a few years ago:

 

sig.jpg

 

The set includes 3 IKE dollars and my plan was to have a MS66 for the Philly issue ; MS67 for the D & S. Well I have the D & S in 67 and have wanted to upgrade the P from MS65.

 

The thing is, now that I've become more knowledgeable, I just can't justify pulling the trigger on a Philly IKE in 66 when there are so many coins in the classic series of US coinage that I could better spend my money on.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is wrong with Ikes? they do not seem as popular as other dollar coins.

 

That in a nutshell is exactly what's wrong with them. Attractive Ikes are scarcer than other dollars in any grade but people don't collect the high mintage ones or the varietiers/ special issues/ errors, etc.

 

The low price is caused by a dearth of interest and demand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have a good relationship with your local bank, they can order bags of Ike dollars for you.

 

A board member did this a couple of moths ago and had a good time looking through the coins. (He probably had blackened finders with sparkly copper flecks, too.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) ugly

2) not rare

3) what's the melt value?

 

This goes for all the modern dollars (ikes, SBA, sac, pres).

 

Again, just my opinion. I agree with dadams. I can't pay $1,500 for a 1971 Ike in MS66 when I can buy a nice frosty morgan in MS66 for less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the popularity of Ikes (Silver and Non-Silver) on the rise? ?

 

They do seem to be getting more attention. There are rumors around that the FED is destroying their supplies., The rumors are being generated by several reports around the country that they are no longer available. I don't attach a lot of significance to these rumors for two reasons; chiefly that a change in policy by any of the contractors working for the FED could generate them. But also because I seriously doubt the FED ever had very large stocks of Ikes. Mintages were reduced in '77 and '78 due to lack of demand. If they made 30 million coins each year anyway then they must not have had large supplies then and there's no reason to believe they accumulated large numbers since.

 

Part of the increased attention is being caused by the "Ike Group" and its indivvidual members. New books of very good quality have been issued in the last several years and these books siimply must generate attention. Demand must be speciufic and targeted oin something in low supply to have any affect on prices. To date we are seeing increased demand for nice attractive BU examples which is pushing the prices up for these. This is somewhat remarkable really because the mintages were huge and the supply of such low grade coins is not extremely low. There are up to a million of each date/ mm of coins in this condition with none (regular issue) lower than about a quarter million. For these prices to be rising is somewhat surprising and suggests a more "grassroots" demand than normal hobby demand.

 

Part of the issue here is simply that even though these coins exist in significant numbers like this, many are not readily available to the market because they are tied up in collections or mint sets. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also many small hoards of fifty or sixty rolls of nice chBU Ikes among those who know they are readily available. With the normal sources drying up and rumors of destruction it is possible it's exciting a little demand.

 

Few people really understand the high end of the market. These coins may never become popular but all Gem Ikes are "scarce". Sure there are some like the '77 and '78-D that exist in tens of thousands but most are highly elusive. With Morgans you can always just come down a grade to find something affordable but this won't apply to all Ikes becauise some of them are tough in the next two grades down as well. Additionally some nice Ikes are Gem or they tend to be pretty ugly.

 

There are some major standouts in the silver issues as well but all of these are in ample supply at this time and attractive specimens are common. This "ample" supply could evaporate fairly quickly with new demand and the lower mintages could translate to more price response. It would require a mass market to affect the silver prices but a mass market could be developing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like Ike and Ikes have become popular - just not widely popular.

 

And I am the forum member that gets bags of Ikes from the my bank but that is a special situation and most banks will not order bags of Ikes for their customers.

 

When I sell my Ikes, my bags and rolls - sell out in just a few days. I have yet to have an offering stay on EBay for sale for longer than a week. Which is a testament to their growing popularity.

 

If you want to talk with other Ike enthusiasts try --

 

http://forum2.ikegroup.info/

 

19Lyds who is another Ike fan should be stopping by in a minute.

 

Ike varieties are also starting to catch some interest.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"There are rumors around that the FED is destroying their supplies."

 

Bologna! It would show up in the Treasury report and increase the deficit -- not something anyone wants to do. All the profit would have to be recaptured.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Popularity is relative. The series that are viewed as unpopular of which Ike dollars are one cannot all become a lot more popular and therefore, a lot more expensive without pricing out a substantial number of collectors out of many, most or even all of the coins they want to buy.

 

US coins in the aggregate are already the most expensive and overpriced in the world considering their relative numismatic merits, even accounting for income and wealth differences. The more expensive Ike dollars are hardly "cheap" today, only so compared to a large number of other US coins which are also beyond the reach of the lopsided majority of US collectors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya'll should have seen the ones that Shane had at the NGC luncheon today - these were absolutely gorgeous, naturally toned, monster proofs. Still a big ugly coin - but the metal disc was more of a serving platter for the nice color on these.

 

It was really funny though, someone asked the exact same question to Mark Salzberg, wondering what his opinion was on Ikes. He made it very clear that he was not a fan of them at all, and had no idea why anyone would be. It was actually pretty funny, and he was ripping pretty hard on the Ike guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya'll should have seen the ones that Shane had at the NGC luncheon today - these were absolutely gorgeous, naturally toned, monster proofs. Still a big ugly coin - but the metal disc was more of a serving platter for the nice color on these.

 

I'd love to see them. Maybe Shane will chime in with some images.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO, it's just not a very interesting design. The reverse lacks imagination and artistry. I also believe it's the only Silver Dollar with a bust on it.

 

It's such a large surface, they could have done much more with the design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As soon as Morgans become too expensive for the typical collector

 

That's unlikely to happen any time soon for the common dates. Have you seen how huge the populations the common dates are even in grades of MS65-MS67?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an 'appreciation' for Ikes but that is as far as I will go. The design isn't all that attractive. I don't think that they will become 'rarities' anytime soon----maybe in 100 years. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an 'appreciation' for Ikes but that is as far as I will go. The design isn't all that attractive. I don't think that they will become 'rarities' anytime soon----maybe in 100 years. ;)

 

Absolute rarities? No. But I do believe that there are relative rarities/condition rarities that are themselves elusive. Collecting the circulation strikes in MS66 or higher condition can be difficult for many dates and mint marks. While I do not find the design personally appealing, I can appreciate the challenge and reward that some collectors have in trying to locate premium quality examples without heavy bag marks for their collections. As the pieces age, I can see people acquiring more interest in them in the coming years. Look at the pricing of Morgan and Peace Dollars in the 1960s and 1970s (meaning some coins could be 50-60 years old), and yet the coins have loyal followings today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya'll should have seen the ones that Shane had at the NGC luncheon today - these were absolutely gorgeous, naturally toned, monster proofs. Still a big ugly coin - but the metal disc was more of a serving platter for the nice color on these.

 

It was really funny though, someone asked the exact same question to Mark Salzberg, wondering what his opinion was on Ikes. He made it very clear that he was not a fan of them at all, and had no idea why anyone would be. It was actually pretty funny, and he was ripping pretty hard on the Ike guys.

Yeah, he pretty much took a shot at all moderns. Couldn't understand why a 1975-S nickel could cost the same as an XF 1795 half dime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ikes will have their day. I would say we might still be 10 yrs off but they do have one thing going for them - they are big and for those of us that have bad eyes big coins are nice.

 

I would love to collect Half Dimes but I think I would go blind trying to. lol

 

Ive only been around numismatics for 15-20 yrs but I can definitely say Ive seen an increase in interest in Peace $ in that time. I cant imagine that Ikes will be passed over. Perhaps SBAs and the golden dollars but Ikes will come up.

 

For some that like dollar sized coins - some just dont like Morgans. I personally find Morgans over priced and an impossible set to complete. Even a Morgan Date Set is a huge accomplishment in MS grades. Ikes are much easier. Even doing a complete Ike set with all varieties is much less expensive then doing even a Date Set of Morgans.

 

So I can see Ikes appealing to the masses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's some numbers to chew on:

 

In only 8 years, there were over 680 million regular Ikes minted. Plus another 17 million Uncirculateds, and 30 million Proofs. All in the 1970's, when coin collecting exploded.

 

Conversely, there were about 656 million Morgan Silver Dollars over 28 years. And very few people were collecting over the 1877-1921 period (no Morgans from 1905-1920, BTW). Many were lost and/or melted down.

 

And only about 103 million Liberty $20 Gold coins in over 50 years of production. Again, many lost...overseas....melted down.

 

And only about 68 million Saint Gaudens $20 Gold coins over 20 years. Ditto on the overseas and melted down.

 

So.....not only do you have a much larger supply of a relatively 'bland' coin, but it's unlikely to develop numismatic appeal. All of the coins I mentioned above have big historical significance: the Silver vs. Gold debates (William Jennings Bryan, "you shall not crucify...blah blah"), the use of silver and gold to back the U.S. Dollar, the Gold Standard, financing international trade, the artistry and history behind the coins (the difficulty of making coins compared to today), etc.

 

It's unlikely you're going to see the same nostalgia for Ikes in 10-20 years (50-60 years after their mintage) that you saw for Liberty's in the 1950's or Saints in the 1970's, 50+ years after they ceased production.

Link to comment
Share on other sites