When will Ikes time come?

[World Colonial]

This entire diatribe about dollar coins is so convoluted with inept and ignorant opinions bolstered by statistical speculation is just baloney.

Eliminate the dollar bill and the coins will be used. It is that simple.

 

I have no idea what "diatribe you are talking about and yes, I know what you meant. I just didn't state it correctly.

 

My "statistical speculation" doesn't have anything to do with any dollar coins use as money. That is complete nonsense. I have been attempting to explain how the availability of Ikes in any different grades might be estimated. What exactly do you not understand about that? If you do not agree with my approach and estimates, that is your business.

[19Lyds]

20 dollar bills are just so easy to carry along in my wallet vs 20 Ikes or Susan B's or the gold one I can't spell. Inflation fights against smaller denominations. Half cents can tell us about it.

 

Combined maybe with the lack of silver in coins and you have less use for coins.

 

Oh yeah, I am not wealthy and live in the cutting edge metropolis of St Louis. It has been weeks since I had a coin in my pocket. No doubt in a couple weeks I will come into some bills for some reason and then for the next couple weeks I will have coins again in my pocket for a few weeks. No dollars or half dollars though.

 

Again, another weak and baseless argument!

 

Folks often spout about how they'd much rather carry a $20 bill instead of 20 IKE Dollars.

 

Well DUH!

 

This is true for anybody because unless these people are completely devoid of any common sense, they'd exchange those 20 IKE Dollars for a $20 bill. Sheesh!

 

When was the last time anybody carried around 20 Washington Quarters without either spending them or exchanging them? (Car Washes and Laundromats don't count.)

 

How about 20 bills instead of 20 IKEs or Presidential dollars? Nobody carries around 20 one dollar bills unless they have a specific goal in mind for doing so.

 

Everybody has at least the minimum amount of common sense to minimize the shear volume of money that they need for any single days transactions.

 

Try again.

[cladking]

 

I don't claim that my "guesstimates" have any confidence level. That is why I call them "guesstimates". I accept your experience and of others to a point, but that is all. I listed some of the factors I believe are relevant a few posts ago but I don't actualy know which ones are most important for Ikes.

 

 

The reason I avoid talking about mintages and survival rates; absolute numbers surviving, is that the numbers are very highly misleading. There are still significant numbers of rolls of Ikes, for instance, and they still contain significanrt numbers of Gems. But many of the owners are "out of the loop" as far as valuations are concerned. This even applies to large percentages of the coin dealer where many of these rolls will end up after the current owner's estate is dispersed. The dealers will likely pay face value and put themn in the till or sell them for the first offer that is a profit. The buyer might want something unusual for his children to play with or be making something with real coins in it.

 

There was a new poster on one web site recently that had a frame with 25 '71 Ikes that had been given to his parents on a 25th anniversary. Posters were encouraging him to take the coins to the bank to monetize a $25 profit. The picture was poor but they were obviously Unc and most were very well struck so some posters encouraged him to get them looked at by a professional. Turned out that many were Gems and he had a windfall.

 

This is the way it is. Even though there are still substantial numbers of Gems in existence most have already been lost and so long as Ikes are widely hated the surviving onnes are going to be lost as well. Only those that have been identified and intentionally set aside in a safe enviroment has a good chance of still being around in the future. This means current pops really are understated but there's no reason to believe the rate of increase will be much affected even if prices soar. As the raw coins are still being "used up" the rate of increase will actually begin to drop. The final tally will be far below the mintage and far below the number in existence today. Nothing can change this but once any modern becomes widely accepted as a collectible the number being destroyed will drop.

 

But even if a concerted effort could somehow be made today to stop all the destruction of moderns the fact remains tthat many are already scarce or rare so it would change nothing at all. It's not really possible to stop the destruction even with the cooperation and great effort of all coin collectors. By the time all the scarcities are plucked from circulation many will have degraded further or been lost to fire and flood. The mint will contiue to rotate their stocks which makes the entire system a huge coin grinding machine. Mint sets will be broken up and spent or given to children. Of course everyone isn't going to drop what they're doing to save coins they hate for future generations so I avoid talking about how many nice choice Gem 1977 Ikes really exist in the world. If you want to know then just go find one! It will give you a taste of just how hard it really is to find Gems Ikes when even the most common date in Gem will require significant effort unless you have 70 or 80 1977 mint sets on hand or a nice sampling of 50 rolls of '77 Ikes. These accumulations were common only twenty years ago but while the hobby was sleeping they were all busted up and most are now gone forever because nobody cared. Now there probably aren't three dozen entities in the country who can lay their hands on such quantities while every single day more and more are destroyed.

[19Lyds]

This entire diatribe about dollar coins is so convoluted with inept and ignorant opinions bolstered by statistical speculation is just baloney.

Eliminate the dollar bill and the coins will be used. It is that simple.

 

I have no idea what "diatribe you are talking about and yes, I know what you meant. I just didn't state it correctly.

 

My "statistical speculation" doesn't have anything to do with any dollar coins use as money. That is complete nonsense. I have been attempting to explain how the availability of Ikes in any different grades might be estimated. What exactly do you not understand about that? If you do not agree with my approach and estimates, that is your business.

Sorry, I do get carried away but it seems that your statistical analysis regarding the grade availability or estimation of grades of IKE Dollars is based upon "Population Reports".

 

Population reports would only be a viable source of data if every IKE dollar were submitted for grading which simply is not the case. Folks only submit those which they feel would grade reasonably high. As such, the numbers simply are not a true reflection of the quality of the IKE Dollar where MS66 is a scarce coin and an MS67 is a gold mine.

 

Population numbers ONLY reflect what folks felt was a potential profit. Of course, the same could be said for Morgans and Peace Dollars except with a higher degree of turnaround.

 

Statistically, and only from a grading standpoint:

 

MS66 IKE's = 4.630

MS66 Morgans = 78,155

MS66 Peace = 6,994

 

Do the numbers mean anything? Only that finding an MS66 IKE is going to be a lot tougher than finding an MS66 Morgan or Peace Dollar.

 

MS67 IKE = 81

MS67 Morgan = 9,759

MS67 Peace = 228

 

Again, the numbers mean nothing other than finding an MS67 IKE is going to be extremely tough.

 

Does any of this mean anything?

Only that IKE's are not very popular as a collectible but the ower grade coins indicate that they are quite popular as an investment simply because higher grade IKE command considerably more money than their common counterparts in MS66 and MS65 or which, many of those MS65 and MS66 coins were hoped to be MS67 coins.

 

Again, does this mean anything at all? No. Only that one day, IKE's will be appreciated for their collectability simply because they are the last of the Large Dollar Coins.

 

I expect that elimination of the paper dollar will play some role in this appreciation when dollar coins begin to circulate.

 

Nostalgia? None. No circulation means that few people remember these coins. That, might be a contributing factor to an increase in popularity but that's a stretch.

 

At any rate, I've stated my case(s). Maybe some type of article is needed in a major numismatic publication debunking some of these comply held myths regarding dollar coins?

 

[MarkVIIIMarc]

20 dollar bills are just so easy to carry along in my wallet vs 20 Ikes or Susan B's or the gold one I can't spell. Inflation fights against smaller denominations. Half cents can tell us about it.

 

Combined maybe with the lack of silver in coins and you have less use for coins.

 

Oh yeah, I am not wealthy and live in the cutting edge metropolis of St Louis. It has been weeks since I had a coin in my pocket. No doubt in a couple weeks I will come into some bills for some reason and then for the next couple weeks I will have coins again in my pocket for a few weeks. No dollars or half dollars though.

 

Again, another weak and baseless argument!

 

Folks often spout about how they'd much rather carry a $20 bill instead of 20 IKE Dollars.

 

Well DUH!

 

This is true for anybody because unless these people are completely devoid of any common sense, they'd exchange those 20 IKE Dollars for a $20 bill. Sheesh!

 

When was the last time anybody carried around 20 Washington Quarters without either spending them or exchanging them? (Car Washes and Laundromats don't count.)

 

How about 20 bills instead of 20 IKEs or Presidential dollars? Nobody carries around 20 one dollar bills unless they have a specific goal in mind for doing so.

 

Everybody has at least the minimum amount of common sense to minimize the shear volume of money that they need for any single days transactions.

 

Try again.

 

Wait, we are agreeing! Nobody carries around silver dollars. When I have cash to spend it is usually efficient 20's which soon turn into 1's. When I have cash to spend I might end up with several quarters in my pocket but not dollars like you say.

 

Imagine a cash drawer clunking around with a couple dozen Ikes in it instead of paper dollars. Susan B's would be less bad but alas they don't make those for some reason any longer.

 

I think it may be paper money, be it a couple 20 dollar bills vs a mythical couple twenty dollar coins, is just easier to fold into my wallet?

 

What circulates more nowadays? Someone has to have a study, the average quarter or the average dollar bill? I honestly don't know.

 

There seems to be a resistance against cent values in paper money. Has it ever been tried?

[19Lyds]

20 dollar bills are just so easy to carry along in my wallet vs 20 Ikes or Susan B's or the gold one I can't spell. Inflation fights against smaller denominations. Half cents can tell us about it.

 

Combined maybe with the lack of silver in coins and you have less use for coins.

 

Oh yeah, I am not wealthy and live in the cutting edge metropolis of St Louis. It has been weeks since I had a coin in my pocket. No doubt in a couple weeks I will come into some bills for some reason and then for the next couple weeks I will have coins again in my pocket for a few weeks. No dollars or half dollars though.

 

Again, another weak and baseless argument!

 

Folks often spout about how they'd much rather carry a $20 bill instead of 20 IKE Dollars.

 

Well DUH!

 

This is true for anybody because unless these people are completely devoid of any common sense, they'd exchange those 20 IKE Dollars for a $20 bill. Sheesh!

 

When was the last time anybody carried around 20 Washington Quarters without either spending them or exchanging them? (Car Washes and Laundromats don't count.)

 

How about 20 bills instead of 20 IKEs or Presidential dollars? Nobody carries around 20 one dollar bills unless they have a specific goal in mind for doing so.

 

Everybody has at least the minimum amount of common sense to minimize the shear volume of money that they need for any single days transactions.

 

Try again.

 

Wait, we are agreeing! Nobody carries around silver dollars. When I have cash to spend it is usually efficient 20's which soon turn into 1's. When I have cash to spend I might end up with several quarters in my pocket but not dollars like you say.

 

Imagine a cash drawer clunking around with a couple dozen Ikes in it instead of paper dollars. Susan B's would be less bad but alas they don't make those for some reason any longer.

 

I think it may be paper money, be it a couple 20 dollar bills vs a mythical couple twenty dollar coins, is just easier to fold into my wallet?

 

What circulates more nowadays? Someone has to have a study, the average quarter or the average dollar bill? I honestly don't know.

 

There seems to be a resistance against cent values in paper money. Has it ever been tried?

I have never carried money in a wallet. Bills or Coins. Always in my pocket with my hand clutched around it.

 

I NEVER carry a "wad" of money which would be the equivalent of a large handful of coins. I always downsize as most other people do.

 

Cash register drawers usually have 5 coin pockets and 5 bill pockets.

 

1c - 5c - 10c - 25c - 50c

$1 - $5 - $10 - $20 - Coin Rolls/Misc Coins/junk/paper clips/etc.

 

The point being that the market place is adaptable. Merchants are simply unwilling to adapt.

 

 

 

[e1cnr]

I got to say the strippers seem to enjoy IKEs better than $1 bills.