When will Ikes time come?

[World Colonial]

As soon as Morgans become too expensive for the typical collector

 

Collectors don't buy something they don't like just because they cannot afford something else. There is no evidence to support that anywhere. The lack of affordability of other coins isn't going to make any collectors like Ikes (or any other series) more. If a collector already likes this series and cannot afford something else they like more, then they may buy it but that is all. If not, they won't buy anything.

[World Colonial]

It's unlikely you're going to see the same nostalgia for Ikes in 10-20 years (50-60 years after their mintage) that you saw for Liberty's in the 1950's or Saints in the 1970's, 50+ years after they ceased production.

 

There isn't any evidence except anecdotally that nostalgia has any noticeable impact on pricing which is the actual definition of popularity being used here. After all, if hundreds of thousands or millions started collecting Ikes tomorrow at slightly higher but still nominal prices, no one would be saying anything about it.

 

This should be apparent but this concept comes up on occasion both here and on PCGS. No one needs to buy a "conditional" or "grade" rarity, "monster" toned coin or die variety for hundreds or thousands of dollars to satisfy their nostalgia. They can do so at a cost of a few dollars for this coin and at still nominal prices for most others. Those that do pay "high" prices for this reason are an unquantifiable trivial minority and don't represent enough collectors to make a difference except in isolation or with coins that are actually at least somewhat scarce.

 

In response to the prior post that the Morgan dollar isn't cheap, no it isn't but then it is the most actively bought coin for "investment" purposes and the Peace dollar either also is or is a candidate for this type of buying which accounts for at least some of its apparent increase in popularity. There is absolutely zero reason to believe that, outside of specialization, Ikes will be bought for "investment" in the foreseeable future because it is predominantly a base metal coin.

 

In theory, the silver Ikes might be but from what I know, they are extremely common even in high grades and are unlikely to benefit from it except as they already do today. Common Morgan dollars in MS-65 and especially lower grades certainly fit this description. Why would the Ike be any different? Does anyone believe that the Ike is going to overtake it in popularity? If so, based upon what?

[GoldFinger1969]

There isn't any evidence except anecdotally that nostalgia has any noticeable impact on pricing which is the actual definition of popularity being used here. After all, if hundreds of thousands or millions started collecting Ikes tomorrow at slightly higher but still nominal prices, no one would be saying anything about it.

 

Ultimately, it boils down to supply and demand. If supply is very limited -- a non-common Saint Gaudens in MS-68 condition -- we know there are lots of buyers for that coin. Hence, astronomical price for the coin relative to the gold content.

 

I don't see a ton of new buyers coming in for Ikes, and my supply figure from earlier indicates it will take alot of buying to absorb the current supply at current prices before they lift substantially.

 

This should be apparent but this concept comes up on occasion both here and on PCGS. No one needs to buy a "conditional" or "grade" rarity, "monster" toned coin or die variety for hundreds or thousands of dollars to satisfy their nostalgia. They can do so at a cost of a few dollars for this coin and at still nominal prices for most others. Those that do pay "high" prices for this reason are an unquantifiable trivial minority and don't represent enough collectors to make a difference except in isolation or with coins that are actually at least somewhat scarce.

 

Right, but those lift the entire sector and create buyers for the genre. I don't think Ike Dollars are specific enough to warrant attention. Collecting classic Porsche's or Ferrari's is legitimate. Collecting classic Gremlins or Ford Pintos -- cars equally rare -- is more a curiosity than an investment or car passion.

 

In response to the prior post that the Morgan dollar isn't cheap, no it isn't but then it is the most actively bought coin for "investment" purposes and the Peace dollar either also is or is a candidate for this type of buying which accounts for at least some of its apparent increase in popularity. There is absolutely zero reason to believe that, outside of specialization, Ikes will be bought for "investment" in the foreseeable future because it is predominantly a base metal coin.

 

Agreed....Morgan Dollars have the entire Silver vs. Gold debate embedded in them....Nevada....the Comstock Lode ("Bonanza" TV show somewhat related to it).....U.S. emerging economic and global dominance.

 

What do the Ike dollars signify ? Inflation ? End of the gold standard ? Watergate ? Disco ?

 

In theory, the silver Ikes might be but from what I know, they are extremely common even in high grades and are unlikely to benefit from it except as they already do today. Common Morgan dollars in MS-65 and especially lower grades certainly fit this description. Why would the Ike be any different? Does anyone believe that the Ike is going to overtake it in popularity? If so, based upon what?

 

Agreed.....over 3x as many minted per year (relative to Morgans) for a coin that was much better preserved, few sent overseas, few melted down, few lost.

 

Plus, it doesn't have any historical sexy stories behind it. Hence, the limited investor or specialty factor behind it.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I have a few thoughts.

 

1. Price does drive me to collect. I like Morgans but don't feel I am there economically or in expertise. So I dabble in a few non graded Indian and Wheat cents thus driving up their price although I think Morgans are way neater.

 

2. What can we expect from Ikes? What is the least valuable coin from 100 years ago? The Jefferson 5cent makes me worry Ikes will take awhile to get some value.

[GoldFinger1969]

I have a few thoughts. 1. Price does drive me to collect. I like Morgans but don't feel I am there economically or in expertise. So I dabble in a few non graded Indian and Wheat cents thus driving up their price although I think Morgans are way neater.

 

What do you mean by "not there economically or in expertise" ? Do you mean buying a low-60's graded Morgan Dollar for anywhere from $75 - $250 is too much ? Are you buying lots of these so the cost would be thousands ? Or do you have little knowledge of them that you want to be an expert before even dipping your toe into the water ?

 

There's nothing wrong with not being an expert and still buying a coin. Just be careful...buy quality...go small. Like investing...if you don't know what or why you bought something, then do more due diligence (DD).

 

2. What can we expect from Ikes? What is the least valuable coin from 100 years ago? The Jefferson 5cent makes me worry Ikes will take awhile to get some value.

 

Can't compare, because 100 years ago mintages were generally less and not with coin collectors in mind as happened post-1950 and especially post-1970.

 

Also, if coins have metallic content -- pure silver or gold -- it adds value.

[World Colonial]

[

This should be apparent but this concept comes up on occasion both here and on PCGS. No one needs to buy a "conditional" or "grade" rarity, "monster" toned coin or die variety for hundreds or thousands of dollars to satisfy their nostalgia. They can do so at a cost of a few dollars for this coin and at still nominal prices for most others. Those that do pay "high" prices for this reason are an unquantifiable trivial minority and don't represent enough collectors to make a difference except in isolation or with coins that are actually at least somewhat scarce.

 

Right, but those lift the entire sector and create buyers for the genre. I don't think Ike Dollars are specific enough to warrant attention. Collecting classic Porsche's or Ferrari's is legitimate. Collecting classic Gremlins or Ford Pintos -- cars equally rare -- is more a curiosity than an investment or car passion.

 

I agree it matters with other collectibles because there is actual evidence to support it. With coins, there isn't really any evidence and as you state, to the extent it actually exists, the coins most often identified as the supposed beneficiaries exist in too large of a supply where it will make any difference financially.

 

In this instance, the only reason I can see why anyone would believe this idea is because these coins circulated relatively recently. Problem is, there is no evidence anywhere to support that collectors in any large numbers prefer any coin just as a result of using it in circulation, absolutely none. And even if they did, these coins never circulated widely. I also further suspect that non-collectors who are under 40 who presumably are supposed to prefer this coin if they become collectors later, the lopsided majority don't even know Ikes exist.

[World Colonial]

I have a few thoughts.

 

1. Price does drive me to collect. I like Morgans but don't feel I am there economically or in expertise. So I dabble in a few non graded Indian and Wheat cents thus driving up their price although I think Morgans are way neater.

 

2. What can we expect from Ikes? What is the least valuable coin from 100 years ago? The Jefferson 5cent makes me worry Ikes will take awhile to get some value.

 

I have a few comments to your post.

 

You say price does drive you to collect. Are you telling me that you will buy something just because it is cheap(er) even if you do not like it? If you do, I believe you are in the minority because on a wider scale, this claim contradicts common sense. But whether you do or not, the nominal prices you are paying isn't going to make any substantive difference to the prices of Ikes or any other series like it in the aggregate.

 

Second, why would you expect anything from Ikes? What reason is there to believe that except as I described previously for specialization, that Ikes or other coins like them will appreciate substantially where it will make any difference to most reading this thread?

 

As I have stated in the past, advocates believe that the series they like are "under appreciated". You seem to think this applies to Ikes while some or many who favor the other least popular series think the same thing.

 

Why would you be right about Ikes while others aren't right about their series? And if all or even most of these out of favor series become substantially more expensive, then what exactly will the "average" collector be able to afford in the future?

 

The most compelling reason I can see for Ikes is their large size since collectors tend to like bigger coins. However, I don't remotely see this as a sufficient reason to expect much higher prices because to most collectors, these coins rank low or very low on the preference scale. Some or even many may buy them now because most of them are relatively cheap. There isn't any evidence that I know to support that enough collectors remotely like them enough to buy them at much higher prices instead of something else, whether now or for the rest of my lifetime.

[TonerGuy]

I think using an investment mentality towards collecting coins is just simply mistaken.

 

Collectors collect because they like to collect. Some collect with the idea that they can recoup some if not all of their expenditures. Thats not always true though. I believe that rarely happens. And those that who collect coins that dont contain silver or gold are obviously not looking towards the intrinsic value to appreciate.

 

People collect a lot of things that dont have intrinsic value. Most collectibles dont have any intrinsic value. To assume that those that collect other modern coins wont collect the only modern era large size dollar coin is myopic.

 

Will Ikes gain in value - more than likely - no. Will some of the higher end pop coins see increases - maybe. Depends on the TPGs and how tight they are with grading. There are already some Ikes that are selling for $15,000+ as conditional rarites.

 

Someone that has access to large sums of Mint Sets and unsearched bags and rolls might be able to make a top pop coin and realize a very nice gain. Is that possible anymore with Morgans or Saints - absolutely not. So there is some potential financial reward awaiting someone out there in regards to Ikes.

 

I think only a small - very small - fraction of collectors bother to understand the history behind their coins. I do but I dont care about the Pitman Act or the Gold vs. Silver debate. I like Peace $ and Ikes because both coins were designed and sculpted by Italian-Americans. To each his own.

 

And with that in mind - why bother to post to the thread to spew negativism about collecting what someone likes. A strong hobby requires all segments of coins to be collected - not just Morgans, Saints or World coins.

[GoldFinger1969]

I agree it matters with other collectibles because there is actual evidence to support it. With coins, there isn't really any evidence and as you state, to the extent it actually exists, the coins most often identified as the supposed beneficiaries exist in too large of a supply where it will make any difference financially.In this instance, the only reason I can see why anyone would believe this idea is because these coins circulated relatively recently. Problem is, there is no evidence anywhere to support that collectors in any large numbers prefer any coin just as a result of using it in circulation, absolutely none. And even if they did, these coins never circulated widely. I also further suspect that non-collectors who are under 40 who presumably are supposed to prefer this coin if they become collectors later, the lopsided majority don't even know Ikes exist.

 

I agree, using a coin in circulation or not is marginal to collecting demand.

 

What makes Morgan Dollars attractive -- if the price is right -- is at least you have 1 ounce of silver backing them and NOBODY alive today, collecting today, used them or saw them in their youth.

 

Not so with the Ike Dollars, which I actually got back as change many times aside from those I was given as presents for collecting purposes.

[GoldFinger1969]

And with that in mind - why bother to post to the thread to spew negativism about collecting what someone likes. A strong hobby requires all segments of coins to be collected - not just Morgans, Saints or World coins.

 

Totally agree....just understand what the supply/demand dynamics are for the coins you collect. If you know that price appreciation is going to be limited, no problem.

 

If you are paying a huge premium to bullion content, again, if you like the coin, no problem.

 

Just make the distinction between COLLECTING and INVESTING and if the latter, are you buying just 1 or 2 of them (closer to collecting) or making a splurge with serious $$$ (closer to investing or even speculating).

[coinman_23885]

I have a few thoughts.

 

1. Price does drive me to collect. I like Morgans but don't feel I am there economically or in expertise. So I dabble in a few non graded Indian and Wheat cents thus driving up their price although I think Morgans are way neater.

 

2. What can we expect from Ikes? What is the least valuable coin from 100 years ago? The Jefferson 5cent makes me worry Ikes will take awhile to get some value.

 

I have a few comments to your post.

 

You say price does drive you to collect. Are you telling me that you will buy something just because it is cheap(er) even if you do not like it? If you do, I believe you are in the minority because on a wider scale, this claim contradicts common sense. But whether you do or not, the nominal prices you are paying isn't going to make any substantive difference to the prices of Ikes or any other series like it in the aggregate.

 

Second, why would you expect anything from Ikes? What reason is there to believe that except as I described previously for specialization, that Ikes or other coins like them will appreciate substantially where it will make any difference to most reading this thread?

 

1. No. He is telling you that among several alternatives, collectors may dabble in a series where prices are more affordable. I have seen countless posts here and ATS throughout the years asking for collecting recommendations on the basis of price. Many collectors like to complete sets (I think it is part of the collecting mentality) and others are newer to numismatics and want to minimize their losses. So among a short set of 1934-1958 Wheat Cents, Morgan Dollars, Trade Dollars, and other potentially expensive series, which do you think a beginner is likely to start with? It has nothing to do with a disdain for wheat cents.

 

2. Some collectors enjoy nostalgia, and many collectors like larger coins. It is also a shorter series, meaning that it is much easier to complete (see above). Many collectors also like challenges, and for those seeking to build a high grade set of coins that are un-abraded by heavy scaring, Ikes might fit the bill. It isn't a series that piques my personal interest, but for these reasons, among others, I do think there is some potential for increased demand in the future.

[TonerGuy]

 

I agree, using a coin in circulation or not is marginal to collecting demand.

 

What makes Morgan Dollars attractive -- if the price is right -- is at least you have 1 ounce of silver backing them and NOBODY alive today, collecting today, used them or saw them in their youth.

Not so with the Ike Dollars, which I actually got back as change many times aside from those I was given as presents for collecting purposes.

 

Well see YOU are collecting because of nostalgia then. You never saw a Morgan in circulation. I will bet you are located on the East Coast. Lots of people who are still alive and lived on the West Coast and visited the casinos in Vegas & Reno saw them used up until the 1960s. They were the standard for slot machine use - until replaced by - oh yes the Ike dollar. Later replaced by the casino's own clad slugs.

 

So now anyone under 40 probably never saw an Ike $ circulate either. So there is a nostalgia to it as well.

 

Here's the difference... I dont think the true modern silver dollar collector will collect Ikes. I think that collector will collect ASEs. But because they are bullion their prices (except for the limited edition examples) will always remain tied to the price of silver. Will ASEs become more popular - absolutely. For exactly the reasons you stated. But I think that someone who collects ASEs - the modern Morgan $ - might just like Ikes as well - some not all.

[World Colonial]

Don't know what negativity you are talking about. This thread was originally about the financial aspects of Ikes and the idea that people are paying any premium of consequence without considering the "investment" aspect is nonsensical.

 

My personal preferences don't have anything to do with my prior post. I find that collectors frequently have unrealistic thinking about the prospects of any number of coins, especially US coins which are already the most expensive given their actual numismatic merits.

 

The comments I made are entirely valid and hardly "negative". That you do not like them is another issue entirely. If someone wants to buy Ikes or any other coins because they like them, nothing in my prior post dissuaded them from doing so.

 

If they are buying them primarily with financial appreciation in mind, except for the specialization practices I already conceded, I don't believe you are anyone else can make a compelling argument to support that they should expect any financial reward of any consequence.

 

 

 

 

[coinman_23885]

NOBODY alive today, collecting today, used them or saw them in their youth.

 

Not even David Hall?

 

To hear the authority with which he makes pronouncements about entire series of coins, you would think he had seen every Morgan and Peace Dollar in existence in his youth in the 1960s and 1970s.

 

[World Colonial]

1. No. He is telling you that among several alternatives, collectors may dabble in a series where prices are more affordable. I have seen countless posts here and ATS throughout the years asking for collecting recommendations on the basis of price. Many collectors like to complete sets (I think it is part of the collecting mentality) and others are newer to numismatics and want to minimize their losses. So among a short set of 1934-1958 Wheat Cents, Morgan Dollars, Trade Dollars, and other potentially expensive series, which do you think a beginner is likely to start with? It has nothing to do with a disdain for wheat cents.

 

2. Some collectors enjoy nostalgia, and many collectors like larger coins. It is also a shorter series, meaning that it is much easier to complete (see above). Many collectors also like challenges, and for those seeking to build a high grade set of coins that are un-abraded by heavy scaring, Ikes might fit the bill. It isn't a series that piques my personal interest, but for these reasons, among others, I do think there is some potential for increased demand in the future.

 

I believe someone will buy the coins you mentioned or any other if they can both afford them and like them. That was my first point.

 

As for Ikes, I didn't say there would be no increase in demand, only that I don't believe that whatever demand increase occurs will matter to most coins in the series.

[TonerGuy]

I don't believe you are anyone else can make a compelling argument to support that they should expect any financial reward of any consequence.

 

I dont know if you can make an argument supporting the potential financial reward of any collectible - not just Ikes but all coins, cars or Beanie Babies.

 

And Im making money every month off Ikes. So there are some of us that are seeing a financial reward. Well for at least the last 4 months. I am seeing more and more interest in my offerings. Prices have increased 10-15% in the same time frame. It might end tomorrow but until it does I will be on the "I Like Ike" bus !

 

Enjoy the rest of the discuss... Im out !

 

[VDB Coins]

The gold dollars and silver dollars -- Indian Princess/Liberty and Seated/Morgan/Peace -- were more successful than any of the subsequent attempts, in that they at least circulated in some portions of the country:

 

--Susan B. Anthony (really? not only that hideous portrait, but the Mint should have learned better lessons from the failed twenty cent piece and its resemblance to the Seated quarter)

--Eisenhower (he was a good statesman and warrior, but that pate didn't belong on a coin; and try to carry five Ikes in your pocket for a week)

--Sacagawea/Native American

--Presidential (when was the last time you saw one in circulation?)

[World Colonial]

And Im making money every month off Ikes. So there are some of us that are seeing a financial reward. Well for at least the last 4 months. I am seeing more and more interest in my offerings. Prices have increased 10-15% in the same time frame. It might end tomorrow but until it does I will be on the "I Like Ike" bus !

 

You are a toned coin specialist which is one of the specializations I specifically mentioned as an exception to my general comments. The original question was for Ikes generically.

[coinman1794]

1) ugly

2) not rare

3) what's the melt value?

 

This goes for all the modern dollars (ikes, SBA, sac, pres).

 

Again, just my opinion. I agree with dadams. I can't pay $1,500 for a 1971 Ike in MS66 when I can buy a nice frosty morgan in MS66 for less.

 

Ike dollars above MS65 are conditionally scarce due to both poor production techniques and careless handling over the years. They are rare in MS67.

 

A 1971 MS66 Ike is usually a lot harder to find than an MS66 Morgan.

 

Actually, I don't understand this thread, because high grade Ikes definitely get the attention they deserve, and the lower grades, which are common, get their proportional due. There is a good market for choice material; even CAC recognized Ikes--but not some earlier series, including silver Roosevelt dimes and silver Proof Washington Quarters.

 

[coinman1794]

Here's some numbers to chew on:

 

In only 8 years, there were over 680 million regular Ikes minted. Plus another 17 million Uncirculateds, and 30 million Proofs. All in the 1970's, when coin collecting exploded.

 

Conversely, there were about 656 million Morgan Silver Dollars over 28 years. And very few people were collecting over the 1877-1921 period (no Morgans from 1905-1920, BTW). Many were lost and/or melted down.

 

And only about 103 million Liberty $20 Gold coins in over 50 years of production. Again, many lost...overseas....melted down.

 

And only about 68 million Saint Gaudens $20 Gold coins over 20 years. Ditto on the overseas and melted down.

 

So.....not only do you have a much larger supply of a relatively 'bland' coin, but it's unlikely to develop numismatic appeal. All of the coins I mentioned above have big historical significance: the Silver vs. Gold debates (William Jennings Bryan, "you shall not crucify...blah blah"), the use of silver and gold to back the U.S. Dollar, the Gold Standard, financing international trade, the artistry and history behind the coins (the difficulty of making coins compared to today), etc.

 

It's unlikely you're going to see the same nostalgia for Ikes in 10-20 years (50-60 years after their mintage) that you saw for Liberty's in the 1950's or Saints in the 1970's, 50+ years after they ceased production.

 

Mintage figures have no baring on the grades of surviving coins. Morgan dollars are far more common in high grades than Ike dollars, due to the factors I mentioned already.

[TonerGuy]

And Im making money every month off Ikes. So there are some of us that are seeing a financial reward. Well for at least the last 4 months. I am seeing more and more interest in my offerings. Prices have increased 10-15% in the same time frame. It might end tomorrow but until it does I will be on the "I Like Ike" bus !

 

You are a toned coin specialist which is one of the specializations I specifically mentioned as an exception to my general comments. The original question was for Ikes generically.

 

I just had to clarify...

 

Im selling generic raw Ikes not toned Ikes. I cant sell toned coins. But I can sell shiny silver generic discs of metal all day long, Ikes, Peace $, Morgans, ASEs. They hold no interest for me.

 

Toned Ikes can bring much higher premiums than 10-15%. Many bring 2-10x grey sheet. Not much different than toned Peace $. Toned Ikes and toned Peace $ are far more elusive than toned Morgans.

[e1cnr]

I like IKEs and would rather spend $50 on a beautiful IKE than an ugly Morgan, but I am still in the minority.

 

The IKE groups' website-> http://forum2.ikegroup.info/

 

and their attractive letterhead

[mtnstyne]

Ike dollars above MS65 are conditionally scarce due to both poor production techniques and careless handling over the years. They are rare in MS67.

 

According to the NGC census 87.3% of all Ike's submitted are graded MS65 or higher.

 

There have been over 11,000 Ikes graded in MS66 and over 16% of all submitted to NGC are graded MS66. Less than 3% of all morgans are graded MS66.

 

A 1971 MS66 Ike is usually a lot harder to find than an MS66 Morgan.

 

I can buy a 1971 MS66 Ike online right now for about $20-$35.

 

There have been over 11,000 Ikes graded in MS66 and over 16% of all submitted to NGC are graded MS66. Less than 3% of all morgans are graded MS66.

 

If you want to talk apples to apples then sure the 1971P Ike is a "conditional" rarity if you want to go with that, NGC has only graded 37 in MS66. But then compare it to the keys of the morgan set rather than the entire series. Overall high graded Ikes are not conditional rarities...rather there just hasn't been that many sent in to be graded by comparison.

 

I don't know how many PCGS has graded, but I would argue that there are dozens or hundreds (if not more) 1971 P Ikes in MS66 that just haven't been sent to a TPG to be put in it's plastic tomb. I seriously doubt there are dozens of 1889 CC Morgans in MS66 that have not been submitted.

 

There are less ms65+ Ike's graded simply because there have been a fraction of the total amount sent in for grading (around 0.01% of the mintage with NGC or 1 out of every 10,000 minted.)

 

Mint state Eisenhower's aren't rare, they just aren't slabbed yet.

 

Again, it's just my opinion, I have a drawer full of mint sets with Ikes in them for my birth year (1971), some are very nice MS examples. However, I would never send one in for submission unless it had exceptional eye appeal for toning or PL surfaces.

 

[e1cnr]

I can buy a 1971 MS66 Ike online right now for about $20-$35.

 

no you can't - unless you are talking about the blue pack 1971-S silver clad or the 1971-S silver clad proof - neither from the Philadelphia mint

[mtnstyne]

I can buy a 1971 MS66 Ike online right now for about $20-$35.

 

no you can't - unless you are talking about the blue pack 1971-S silver clad or the 1971-S silver clad proof - neither from the Philadelphia mint

 

Sure a 1971-S or you can find a 1971-D for about $80, or a 1974 for less than $10. My point is still the same. He is comparing a single date/mm against the raw numbers of a complete series.

 

Edit: If you look at the number of submissions for the 1971 P Ike vs morgans roughly the same percentage are graded MS66 as the entire Morgan series. 2.7% for the 1971 P Ike and 2.9% of all morgans.

[coinman_23885]

And Im making money every month off Ikes. So there are some of us that are seeing a financial reward. Well for at least the last 4 months. I am seeing more and more interest in my offerings. Prices have increased 10-15% in the same time frame. It might end tomorrow but until it does I will be on the "I Like Ike" bus !

 

You are a toned coin specialist which is one of the specializations I specifically mentioned as an exception to my general comments. The original question was for Ikes generically.

 

I just had to clarify...

 

Im selling generic raw Ikes not toned Ikes. I cant sell toned coins. But I can sell shiny silver generic discs of metal all day long, Ikes, Peace $, Morgans, ASEs. They hold no interest for me.

 

Toned Ikes can bring much higher premiums than 10-15%. Many bring 2-10x grey sheet. Not much different than toned Peace $. Toned Ikes and toned Peace $ are far more elusive than toned Morgans.

 

It also depends on what level of toning you are referring to as well. True monster pieces are extremely scarce on all three, and are highly prized by collectors (hence the premiums associated with all of them). While there are several bag toned Morgans, true monsters aren't as common as you might think. Your toning comments bring up an excellent appoint: Are we referring to generics or a small percentage of each series that has truly outstanding eye appeal? I could learn to like an extremely nice Ike with the right color about it.

[mailman1959]

For the year 2013 I had THE NUMBER 1 SET, if my father had not passed away I would still have the coins. Point being, I sold the coins rather quickly, got at least what I paid them without any fees because other collectors here were very interested in buying them. IKES are collectable and worth every penny you paid for them. Not counting the silver coins I think there is a total of 114 coins in MS67. The total number graded is around 52700..Also there are more IKE DOLLAR SETS in the registry than PEACE DOLLARS...Collect what YOU like, no matter how ugly they are to everyone else...MAILMAN

[TonerGuy]

 

It also depends on what level of toning you are referring to as well. True monster pieces are extremely scarce on all three, and are highly prized by collectors (hence the premiums associated with all of them). While there are several bag toned Morgans, true monsters aren't as common as you might think. Your toning comments bring up an excellent appoint: Are we referring to generics or a small percentage of each series that has truly outstanding eye appeal? I could learn to like an extremely nice Ike with the right color about it.

 

I dont pay attention to Morgans so I cant really put this into an sense of a statistical analysis but just from some common observations about Morgans - there are a lot of attractively toned examples. I cant tell a Monster from a Moose from a regular ol'toner though. Even toned Morgans dont do anything for me.

 

What I do know is that Ive seen many more attractively toned Morgans in dealer cases over the years than I have ever seen even attractively toned Peace $ and Ikes. Attractive is subjective though.

 

If you want a monster toned Ike you best bet is to contact James Sego. He's handled most of the Peacock Hoard and will know where the coin is that you want. Prying it out of the current owners hands is going to take some bank though.

[coinman_23885]

Ike dollars above MS65 are conditionally scarce due to both poor production techniques and careless handling over the years. They are rare in MS67.

 

According to the NGC census 87.3% of all Ike's submitted are graded MS65 or higher.

 

There have been over 11,000 Ikes graded in MS66 and over 16% of all submitted to NGC are graded MS66. Less than 3% of all morgans are graded MS66.

 

A 1971 MS66 Ike is usually a lot harder to find than an MS66 Morgan.

 

I can buy a 1971 MS66 Ike online right now for about $20-$35.

 

There have been over 11,000 Ikes graded in MS66 and over 16% of all submitted to NGC are graded MS66. Less than 3% of all morgans are graded MS66.

 

If you want to talk apples to apples then sure the 1971P Ike is a "conditional" rarity if you want to go with that, NGC has only graded 37 in MS66. But then compare it to the keys of the morgan set rather than the entire series. Overall high graded Ikes are not conditional rarities...rather there just hasn't been that many sent in to be graded by comparison.

 

I don't know how many PCGS has graded, but I would argue that there are dozens or hundreds (if not more) 1971 P Ikes in MS66 that just haven't been sent to a TPG to be put in it's plastic tomb. I seriously doubt there are dozens of 1889 CC Morgans in MS66 that have not been submitted.

 

There are less ms65+ Ike's graded simply because there have been a fraction of the total amount sent in for grading (around 0.01% of the mintage with NGC or 1 out of every 10,000 minted.)

 

Mint state Eisenhower's aren't rare, they just aren't slabbed yet.

 

 

You are not being fair in your comparison. I think you are considering the silver clad issues that were struck for collectors and are in unusually high levels of preservation as a result of (relative) better handling and packaging. The U.S. Mint did not produce mint sets in the 1800s. And one could argue that there are a good number of Morgans out there that are not rare and have never been slabbed either. If you look at very popular issues (think 1883-O, 1884-O, 1885-O, 1879-S, 1880-S, 1881-S, 1882-S, many Philadelphia issues, 1921-PD, etc.), these coins have enormous populations that exceed 10,000 for 1880-S and 1881-S, for example, even in the lofty grade of MS66. This is more than for the entire Ike series (all data for Ikes and Morgans based on the NGC census). To be clear, I think there are plenty of Ikes to be graded, but I think this phenomenon also applies to Morgan Dollars.

 

With regards to preservation, I think you undermine the difficulty in finding coins that are scar free. Sure, we both could easily find tens of thousands of mint state Morgan and Ike Dollars without a problem, but finding nice coins is more challenging, particularly for the latter which are even bulkier/ heavier than Morgan Dollars. For a collector looking at the superb gem range, it is much more challenging to find a MS67 circulation strike Ike than a Morgan Dollar. (And let's face it, even MS65 coins have a number of abrasions on larger coins).

 

And for those referencing the intrinsic metal value of Morgan Dollars, when you look at gem coins, the prices are typically above $100. At that point, most of the value is not coming from the metal but from numismatic premium associated with demand. Look at 1880-S and 1881-S with more than 30,000 and 50,000 examples certified in MS65. It is surprising to me that the coins still have as high of value as they do. The pricing on the MS63-MS64 coins is even more surprising to me for many of the dates.

 

And for those commenting that no one is alive that received a Morgan Dollar in circulation, this is not exactly true. The coins were widely held by banks and one could take silver certificates and exchange them at many banks for Morgan and Peace Dollars even in the early 1960s. And many are also forgetting about the GSA releases in the 1970s. In short, I can see parallels between the Morgan series and the Ikes. Both seem over produced and arguably under appreciated.

 

And finally, for those ignoring the Ikes - I think this is exactly why the issues will become increasingly scarce as time goes on. Collectors treat them nonchalantly and many are handled without proper care. As such, I expect that the supply of truly well preserved examples will shrink as time goes on.

 

Edited: I think the low price and availability of lower mint state Morgan Dollars is part of the reason for the higher demand. Most kids are hooked with their first silver dollar purchase. I remember my first Morgan Dollar - a common date with slight but attractive toning - and it helped pique my interest in them. I can see parallels in the availability and pricing of Morgans to Ikes. It might take a couple of decades, but I see it happening.

 

[coinman_23885]

If you want a monster toned Ike you best bet is to contact James Sego. He's handled most of the Peacock Hoard and will know where the coin is that you want. Prying it out of the current owners hands is going to take some bank though.

 

Thanks! And I took a quick glance at Ike Group that you linked, and I am impressed as to how well organized and how serious some of the collectors are.