EagleRJO

I would not submit ASE's or other similar lower-average value coins as you will lose money, since you have a $50 to $80 grading cost and only a slight increase in value from having those coins slabbed. I think people are becoming more aware of the "milk spot" issue, and at first signs of anything put them up for sale on eBay. Also, while the spots can be from a span of many years it does look like most are more recently struck.

I just read this, and like @GBradI am also surprised by your comments. Many very experienced members have taken the time to review questions you have and coins you post and give you straightforward, detailed and honest answers and advice, more so than some others from a quick look at a few of your threads. Also, people here do not sugar coat answers. I not sure what I am missing that would prompt that reaction, and I don't see any sarcasm above. Perhaps you are referring to comments on the use of scopes, which you seemed a little defensive about. You are free to use whatever devices desired to view coins, but avid collectors only use high magnification in very specific situations. Keep in mind that circulated coins have many imperfections and PMD which will jump out at you under high magnification and can be misleading, like thinking they must be errors when they are almost always just common conditions.

Try this infographic to help you identify machine doubling (aka shelf doubling).

Even though the pics are blurry I do see what appears to be some variations. But do you know if China was using master hubs and dies with little variation like in the US at that time. Or perhaps like the Spanish Royal Mint circa 1910 which used standardized individual die punches where there could still be some variations. I don't know much about the minting process in China at that time, but my guess would be more on par, or behind, the Spanish Royal mint.

There are many like myself who are avid ASE collectors, and likely will get a few with milk spots. Luckily, these coins are usually not high value, and I haven't had any develop the spots (knock on wood). I am seriously considering discontinuing the series anyway until they can figure it out as the mint has other quality issues that need to be corrected, but then I will have gaps in the proof ASE collection. I am curious what years developed the spots. One-in-four seems like a lot. I am also curious what years developed the spots.

Thanks Bill, NP that it's a special issue for more money as I was just curious. All of my proof ASE's are in the OGP. That one is a first strike which dealers usually upcharge for, and I really cant see why people pay extra for that. Check out NGC's release designations. To each his own. https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/designations/ Btw, there was an entire write-up of the Type-1 versus Type-2 2021 silver eagles on one of the bullion dealer's sites, and I think the Type-2 is hands down the better looking reverse ... https://www.herobullion.com/type-1-versus-type-2-silver-eagles/

I am working on a auto hyperlink to tag JKK if the attached is posted with a questions on Ancients.

If you don't mind sharing, where do you get the graded MS70 proof ASE for $40. Also, I haven't dropped the proof ASE's yet, I just canceled the subscription. I ordered one more from the mint with the $5 "gift box" to check quality and see if the box is in fact the clamshell style, which I think would be nice with the new embossed outer sleeve. I didn't really like the 2022 proof ASE (weaker strike, a few small air bubbles in the capsule, and the change to a cheesy dollar store box). I will decide if I am completely bailing on adding any more to my proof ASE collection after I receive the one I ordered and look at everything closely.

From looking at the difference in sale prices between raw and slabbed coins for a few different coin types the "break even" is in the around the $300 range, but likely over $300. Plus I can't see recovering $50 to $80 in added value from grading for a coin only worth $150. I had to look where you pointed out, and it may be a slight shelf like doubling at those spots but not directly around them. So it likely would be minor die deterioration in those areas. In any event it's not clearly obvious just looking at the coin, so there would be no added value, and particularly to make it worth grading.

Concerning the packaging for the 2023 proof ASE coin, the $5 add cost would be for a "gift" box. Previously, the clamshell box was referred to as a "presentation" box, and I can't imagine any other box the mint would refer to as a "gift" box for additional money. So I'm pretty sure it will be the clamshell style. I will post the box I actually receive. Concerning the cost, a $23 proof ASE in 1986 inflation adjusted to 2022 would be a little over $61. The coin is presently $80 without the nice clamshell style presentation box the 1986 coin came in, so it would be $85 with this box. That's $24 (exceeding the cost of a 1986 coin) or 40% over the $61 inflation adjusted price! That is ridiculous, and with any further big price jumps I may very well bail on the proof ASE's. Part of the issue is two years ago the mint went woke, with DEI requirements that dictated people be hired for other than they be the most qualified people for various positions. They also started introducing less desirable coins to collectors that met the new DEI guidelines, which of course are running at a loss and needs to be made up elsewhere. It really is a shame that this recent crazy DEI nonsense has carried over into the numismatic world.

@VKurtBWell then it may very well be that her hands are tied to break even, and it sounds like she was very generous with her time as the Director of the US Mint to spend hours signing boxes. I decided yesterday not to give up so easily on the ASE's considering the number of years invested, and ordered a 2023 proof with the $5 add for a gift box, which I understand is the clamshell presentation box. Maybe with the embossed outer sleeve and the clamshell inner box it may actually come out very nice and better than expected. Do you know if it looks like the issue with milk spots has been resolved? I heard through the grapevine that it was a processing issue with the coils used to make the blanks for ASE's, which apparently was resolved.

Next time you see her please let her know how poor of a decision she made switching to the horrible cheesy dollar store plastic inserts, as that change was made under her watch and resulted in me canceling virtually all of my mint subscriptions due to what I perceive as a misguided cost savings attempt and poor decision making. What's next, just wrap the capsule in old newspaper, add some scotch tape, and slap a stamp on it. I understand the mint has been getting hammered with complaints about the change, and even sent out an explanation letter trying to justify the change. Instead of more money for additional window dressing on the outer sheath and explanation letters, I wish they would just go back to the nice clamshell style presentation boxes. I would be okay a more plain outer sheath like before if the coin capsule was in a clamshell inner box.

@GBradNice representation of what occurred, which is exactly what it looked like to me!

@Lost in the Groovewelcome to the forum! When taking pics of coins outdoor lighting often gives it that washed out appearance. The recommended lighting for grading and evaluating coins is a single 75W to 100W incandescent bulb in a bell style housing, with my preference being 100W. That lighting also works very well for pictures if kept at an angle to reduce glare. [In order to get the 100W incandescent bulbs you have to PM @VKurtB to get an address where you can mail the needed cash, and 5-6 days later he will mail out a plain brown paper wrapped box with your bulbs and no return address ... jk ] About the coin, you indicated the mark is raised above the coin surface, and not incuse (sunken below the coin surface). This is usually evaluated by simply holding the coin at an angle with the noted lighting and good magnification. It is a somewhat unusual place for a die gouge, but gouges do not always occur in the middle of the coin, and since the mark is raised it would almost certainly be a die gouge. That would be a minor mint error, and not of significant value. I would still keep it and put it in a 2x2 vinyl flip with a paper tag on one side with info about the coin and error, then put that in a box marked Minor Mint Errors. https://www.error-ref.com/die-gouges/ Please don't do this as you could inadvertently scratch the coin if you are not very careful with a light touch, which is implied by Coinbuf but just not stated. I wouldn't go anywhere near a coin with a toothpick, but that's just my preference.

Thanks for sharing that post about 8 Reales. Checking the weight and dimensions is a good indicator, meaning that even if they are correct it doesn't mean the coin is authentic. However, the post just skips past the most important part which is checking the designs on both sides. For 8 Reales, unfortunately, there was a significant shortage of coins for use in commerce during the late 1700's into the 1800's. This led to a significant number of 8 Reales, including common dates and marks, with the correct composition, dimensions and weight being struck by private entities and put into circulation. While there could be hundreds of variations of coin dies in a year, the punches used to make the working dies were standardized by the Spanish Royal Mint. So comparing the individual design elements, such as the crown and shield on the reverse, with known legitimate 8 Reales is the way to authenticate these coins.

Welcome to the forum! Pretty good for a first post, although it is a little blury when you zoom in. If you put it on a neutral background as noted and stay close enough so auto-focus in on the coin it should come out a little better. If you have a Samsung phone you can simply use the Gallery app to to do some basic editing like crop, rotate, focus, etc. like I did with the attached. About your coin it's a Peru 1/5 Libra gold trade coin, but the date is too blurry to make out. It has a hit on the coin which may drop it to the XF grade range, but it's hard to tell with a blurry pic and really not my area, so maybe some others can chime in on that. See the following links with some info and values for that coin. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces25403.html https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/peru-1-5-libra-km-210-1906-1969-cuid-1095076-duid-1546872 To protect the coin you should soak it in acetone, which unlike may other methods will not damage the coin. That will remove any fingerprints or oils from your hand, which are corrosive. Then to protect the coin put it in a plastic coin capsule, or a holder like the one discussed as follows depending on your preference. Don't use the 2x2 vinyl coin flips some dealers seem to prefer as you could cause "flip rub". I realized I was just typing away as if you had asked for info and values on the coin, when it really was just about the pics. But I decided to just leave it in case you were interested.

I keep all the coins I get direct from the US mint in the OGP. Has anyone found a good way to store the coin boxes from the US mint for proof gold and silver American Eagles, modern Morgan and Peace dollars, etc. similar to the attached. Right now I have mine stored in several cardboard boxes which are unwieldly and unsightly. Any suggestion on better ways to store them?

Yea, I hear you, I pretty much roll hunt quarters, and occasional half dollars to break it it up. But even then I tend to get fried hunting after a while. So, you have extra sets of state and Park quarters, eh. I just happen to be working on those!

Counterfeits are a problem with these coins (one of the most counterfeited coins), even with common date/mark coins, and they are more difficult to authenticate as there are not comprehensive die variety resources to look up the coins and identify die markers for comparison. Also, the possible die variations are mind boggling. Apparently, these coins were not struck with dies that came from a set of master dies, but instead each individual unique working die was created by hand with punches. And there would be separate punches for legends, lettering, portraits, crown, pillars, shields, and the date and mark. So there is the possibly of hundreds of different working dies for each year, and where those punches can be replicated pretty closely. I am interested in adding some 8 Reals to my collection, and raw coins are a hands down preference. So a little while ago I started digging into these coins. I have acquired two die variety books and a book on counterfeit 8 Reales so far, and was focusing on details of the individual punches instead of the entire coin die. It's still turning out to be a process to authenticate these coins which is a little more difficult than US coins. From the digging I have been doing there is very limited info on the web about 8 Reales, which is why I purchased several books on the subject. Also, other than soaking the coin in acetone as mentioned, I would leave the coin alone and maybe just put it in your own holder.

I did some preliminary research and I didn't find any information on these capsules being air tight, including no claims on the Air-tite website to that effect. In any event, the air-tite capsules have just a press closed overlapping side plastic seal, which would not be expected to be air tight. Don't forget Direct-Fit.

I'm not seeing a DDO either. For the future see this topic which has info on DDO's as well as an infographic on doubling that will likely be helpful in your future coin endeavors. I have been coin collecting and plugging away at roll hunting for a while, and decent errors really are once in a blue moon.

Yea, I have a bunch of Air-tite brand capsules, and a while ago just picked up referring to them generically as such. But you are right I really should distinguish between the two to be technically correct and avoid confusion on the board. So you got me thinking now, are Air-tite brand capsules really air tight?

If you find it interesting I would check out the guide book on Peace dollars referenced above by Roger W. Burdette (RWB on this forum). I bet you didn't think you would get replies to questions about your coin by one of if not the foremost experts on Peace dollars and author of the Red Book guide on those coins.

I'm just curious when you started working on the books considering they are roll hunt finds.

Actually, the US mint and designers of the coin wanted a high-relief so that it would be an exceptionally deep and boldly struck coin. But high-relief coins are more difficult to strike requiring significantly more force. This wore out dies much more quickly. For example only 25,000 1921 High-Relief Peace dollars could be struck with a pair of dies, compared with 200,000 Morgan dollars being struck with a pair of dies that same year. This, along with banks having difficulty stacking these coins, prompted the design change as noted by RWB.