Reno Raines

On 6/25/2023 at 1:19 AM, EagleRJO said:

Today silver closed at $22.70 USD, with a Bid Price @ $22.45 USD and an Ask Price @ $22.70 USD.  Where do you purchase 100 ASE's for at or less than the $22.45 Ask price each, to then melt down to make a 100 oz bar and sell it at 100 x $22.70 = $2,270 USD for a profit of 100 x ($22.70 - $22.45) = $22.50 USD.  With overhead, shipping, etc. it's actually a loss.

When you make your own bars of silver you don't have the overhead expenses that a precious metal dealer does which is why a coin dealer only pays 5 percent off spot silver for ASE's. When I buy ungraded regular ASE's I do so in a bulk order to get a discount. Personally I don't consider the regular version of ASE's as a collectible coin as millions are minted each year compared to the burnished version which the highest mintage was in 2007 with only 621,333 since then the mintages of burnished ASE's has gone way down especially in 2018 (138,947) and 2019 (138,140)

On 6/24/2023 at 7:33 PM, VKurtB said:

Anybody can list them at $110.00, but trust me, I've checked; NOBODY offers more than melt for any of them.

Depending on how much the spot silver price is I usually buy one hundred of the regular version of ASE's and melt them into a one hundred troy ounce bar since there's literally millions of them minted each year. In fact it's roughly a 5:1 ratio in terms of mintage between the regular and burnished versions of ASE's each year. I also would never go to a dealer as any dealer is only going to give you a low ball offer.

On 6/24/2023 at 7:15 PM, VKurtB said:

Getting ANY American Eagle coin graded, regardless of metal, and even if it grades at 70, is one of the biggest money losing propositions in the entire hobby. YOU WILL LOSE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY buying graded American Eagle coinage. It is the surest fact in this hobby. Yet approximately 50% of coins graded at NGC are American Silver Eagles. Really bad look.

Actually I bought a NGC MS70 2022 burnished ASE last night for $61.00 and it (for what it's worth) has a NGC book value of $110.00. The silver in the burnished ASE's is the same as the regular yearly issue however the burnished ASE's have a much lower mintage compared to the regular and proof yearly versions. Personally I think it's a waste of money chasing labels as NGC and other TPG's classify those labels as "Varieties" but it's nothing more than a marketing ploy for them to charge the collector higher grading fees.

On 6/23/2023 at 9:08 PM, Henri Charriere said:

One cannot account for people's tastes, motives or proclivities on certain things, one of which is labels on coins. This is why doing due diligence is emphasized so much. How does one begin to explain to a non-collector that his 24-karat gold plated quarters are a splendid example of post mint damaged coins? 

In a post I made on a different thread I did say that everybody has different collecting styles and tastes. However, that doesn't change the fact that you'll loose money on your investment if and when you decide to sell the coin in question as it's only worth as much as what somebody's willing to pay for it at any given time thus at least IMHO it's not worth paying extra money or justifying the cost for a "Special" label.

On 6/23/2023 at 7:53 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Bibliophiles prize First Editions of books by especially sought after authors, made all the more valuable by subsequent printings during which additions and deletions are made including redactions of entire paragraphs--even chapters. In coins, the only explanation that makes sense is Fresh off the Press and in that case, my understanding is, the entire shipment with package and postal markings intact, would have to be re-shipped unopened to NGC within a specified period of time. The post-mark and condition of the shipment is key. 

 

Why pay extra "Grading fees" just for a "Special" label? If and when you decide to sell the coin in question I pretty much guarantee that you'll loose money on your investment. I'm just trying to save you money when it comes to getting your coins graded. For example, I buy my coins already pre graded by NGC and I've never paid book value for any of them - I collect only gold coins and burnished ASE's. Currently I'm halfway done completing my NGC MS70 burnished ASE set.

All the "labeling" like "First day of issue", "Advanced release" and ect are nothing more than marketing ploys that a collector has to pay extra for since it has no bearing on the grade of the coin and TPG's generate extra income from.

On 6/23/2023 at 7:25 AM, J P M said:

With the way the market is I don't think you would get $165. PCGS book is even lower like$100. Burnished are more valuable than most. Bids start at around $35 and only top out at 60 to 90 on average. Unless it is a special label. 

My NGC MS70 2013 burnished ASE label has a star and says early releases. There's a picture of it in my registry.

Well I only collect gold and silver coins - namely Eagles. I am currently working on a base set of burnished ASE's. The last purchase I made was for a 2013 NGC MS70 burnished ASE back in 2019. I paid $80.00 for it. Recently I looked up the NGC "Book value" for lack of a better term and it lists for $165.00. The bottom line is any coin is only worth as much as what somebody's willing to pay for it at any given time regardless of what the "Book value" for that coin is.

On 6/22/2023 at 1:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Only moderns ?  No pre-1933 gold or silver ?

Not yet but probably soon as I'm tip toeing back to coin collecting.

I only collect the burnished ASE's in NGC MS70 grade and once I get that "Caught up" I'll start a gold eagle collection. Bottom line I only collect gold and silver coins.

Just to prove my point that burnished ASE's having lower mintages each year compared to their regular yearly counterparts (VKurtB's point about regular ASE's being very common and easy to find in NGC MS70 grade) here are the mintages of burnished ASE's from each year from 2006 - 2019 and their regular issue counterparts. I only did the mintages from those years since I haven't added any more burnished ASE's to my collection since then.

2006 W -  regular 10,676,522 burnished 466,573

2007 W - regular 9,028,036 burnished 621,333

2008 W - regular 20,583,000 burnished 533,757

2008 W (Reverse of 2007) - 533,757

2009 W - regular 30,459,000 burnished 0

2010 W - regular 34,764,500 burnished 0 

2011 W - regular 40,020,000 burnished 409,766

2011 S -  burnished 99,882

2012 W - regular 33,742,500 burnished 226,120

2013 W - regular 42,675,000 burnished 221,981

2014 W - 44,006,000 burnished 253,169

2015 W - regular 47,000,000 burnished 200,016

2016 W - regular 37,701,5000 burnished 216,422

2017 W - regular 18,065,500 burnished 176,739

2018 W - regular 15,700,000 burnished 138,947

2019 W - regular 14,863,500 burnished 138,140

On 6/10/2023 at 3:25 PM, James Derrow said:

@VKurtB

I didn't skip the mintages from 2009 and 2010 since burnished ASE's simply weren't minted in those years. At the end of the day just collect coins you like as everybody has a different collecting style and taste.

When it comes to ASE's I would recommend collecting only the proof and burnished versions of ASE's that have been already graded NGC MS70 and PF70 as they each have lower mintages compared to the regular version of ASE's for each year. To complete a set of ASE regular version you'll need 1986 - present. In order to do a complete set of proofs you'll also need 1986 - present and lastly to do a complete set of the burnished version you'll need 2006 - present. Due to the burnished ASE's being relatively new and having the lowest amount minted each year they are very slowly gaining some traction in the ASE collector community.

I'm probably the only person in the village of Oak Hill, OH that collects coins.

On 4/17/2022 at 9:27 AM, tj96 said:

Make one.

I'm probably the only person in the village of Oak Hill, OH that collects coins.

We don't have any book sharing program in Oak Hill, OH.

I prefer just a basic label for all of my graded coins. I think label chasing is just a huge waste of money but some may feel differently. On a separate note I purchased two more burnished ASE's in NGC MS 70 condition (2016 "Lettered Edge and 2018) that I've already added to my registry.

I'm still working on my sets of normal issue ASE's and burnished ASE's but right now my coin collecting has to take a back seat as the oil pump on my car died and to make the repair it'll cost me $600.00.

On 12/14/2021 at 2:26 AM, Stackerdude21 said:

Thanks Lem! That was a good read.

However, the article did not discuss PROOF coins. 

You can buy proof coins directly from the US mint or various other places and compare the proof coin to a normal circulation issue coin.

On 12/14/2021 at 12:07 AM, Stackerdude21 said:

What is the difference between a Gem coin and say a “B.U.” one? Is the Gem a Proof coin and the B.U. an M.S. strike?

Proof coins have a mirror or frosted like background due to the special dies and use a deeper striking process while mint state coins use just a normal striking process. A brilliant  uncirculated coin is a coin that has some wear but is no no longer in circulation basically but I may be wrong.

The ASE in my picture is of a 1986 proof ASE.

I only buy NGC graded coins but I buy them from various places and I never pay the value that NGC has listed for the coin. Now with that being said a coin is only worth as much as someone's willing to pay for it regardless of the listed value by any source. For example, I recently purchased a NGC graded MS70 2013 Burnished ASE for a total $91.16 on ebay while NGC has that coins value listed at $150.00. I use the NGC price guide to help me figure out the most I'm willing to pay for the coin without overpaying.

I've never heard of them but I'm new to the hobby.

On 12/10/2021 at 4:42 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

Why are you continually using graded eagles as your basis for comparison?  You are the only one in this thread who has mentioned graded eagles.  If you want to use graded eagles for your comparison, then I offer this 10 ounce bar that recently sold for $1275 on ebay.  Where's the value now?

Engelhard Bar

I'm sure you and everybody else here has bought raw coins. VKurtB said that a 2021 Type 2 ASE is selling for $32.54 on several websites. Then I said in ungraded condition maybe but if we were to add the grading fees it's closer to $100.00.  Isn't it possible that the person who sold the bar that you've mentioned bought it when the price of silver was $10.00 per troy ounce then just now decided to sell it for more than double their money? Did you even consider that possibility or were you with the seller when they first purchased the bar in question?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread I bought a Silvertowne 10 troy ounce bar of silver back in 2008 when the price of silver was $8.00 per troy ounce or $80.00 and I can sell it today for around $230.00+ based on the current price of spot silver which is almost triple my money.

On 12/9/2021 at 4:57 PM, VKurtB said:

You have more options than my town has. The beer and wine aisle at WalMart on a Sunday morning proves we are not dry here. That aisle often is, but we aren’t. But 2021 Type 2 ASE’s are available RIGHT NOW (just checked) for $32.54 at the first website I checked. Quantity ONE!!!! Look around. $100. Sheesh!

Maybe for ungraded 2021 Type 2 ASE's will be $32.54 but if you add the grading fee it's closer to $100.00. 

On 12/9/2021 at 1:36 PM, VKurtB said:

Oak Hill, OH is NOT that far into the "boonies".

LMAO VKurtB. To answer your question Oak Hill, Ohio is roughly 15 miles SE of Jackson, OH. In fact Oak Hill, OH is a very small village and not a city. We do have a KFC, MCD, Subway, Piggley Wiggley, CVS, Family Dollar, Dollar General, family owned pizza places and four gas stations. Oak Hill is dry so you can't buy adult drinks.

On 12/9/2021 at 2:25 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

No they are NOT saying that.  If they did, they'd probably be fired from their job and/or in violatio of their professional and/or fiduciary duty.

All money managers must disclose where their client's money is being put to work in monthly financial statements to their clients. It is the SEC's (security and exchange commission) responsibility to regulate all financial transactions that professional money managers make to ensure that all transactions are legitimate and not  fraud or unethical. It's really no different than if you were investing in a distressed real estate company that promises to fix up the real estate and sells it for a profit but you want proof that the money you gave that company is going towards fixing the up property instead of the head of the distressed real estate company just pocketing your cash.