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Posts posted by Reno Raines
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On 7/21/2023 at 7:52 PM, VKurtB said:
I invest too. But NEVER in coins. They stink as an investment. They are a HOBBY! ONLY!
I view coin collecting as more of game than a hobby. If you really think about it you'll understand what I mean.
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On 7/21/2023 at 7:25 PM, VKurtB said:
I am too. You'd be smarter. I promise. Actually, that's not fair. Being 46 is a fine age, if it coincides with having 38 years of experience in numismatics.
I'm sorry I invest in real estate, stocks,bonds,T-bills and works of fine art by old masters instead of numismatics damn it. Oh wait ALL of the investments I've made are far more lucrative compared to numismatics my bad .
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On 7/21/2023 at 4:19 PM, VKurtB said:
The explanations of the deeply flawed thought processes are starting to pile up.
I'm sorry that I'm not an old cronie like you.
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On 7/21/2023 at 3:18 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:
Wow....that was when I was getting them for Christmas, Bdays, etc.
So you're saying hardly any or NONE of those proof or mint sets since 1971 have really appreciated at all ?
Condor is correct. In fact I just bought a 1977 (my birth year) proof set for a total of $7.50.
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In my case I only collect gold and silver coins so it's all about eye appeal and presentation. As far as modern coin grades are concerned only submit coins that are as close to perfection as possible wether it's MS70 for circulated coins or PF70 for proof coins.
However, for classic silver coins such as Peace Dollars for example, my minimum acceptable grade is MS64. For classic gold coins like a Indian Head quarter eagle my minimum acceptable grade is AU58.
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On 7/20/2023 at 10:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:
Lloyds of Lubbock will be insuring mine.
"Odd Couple" reference for those over the age of 50 or who watched it in re-runs.
I'm not quite 46 years old yet but will be in September.
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On 7/20/2023 at 8:12 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:
That's why these forums exist !!
Yup that's why when I have time I read answers to newbie questions from experienced collectors.
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On 7/20/2023 at 7:02 PM, VKurtB said:
No such thing as one best book. Your need to shortcut many things speaks volumes.
We all live in a fast paced world these days and I just don't have enough time to read every coin collecting book ever published.
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I did read that Beckett has started their own coin grading service. If I remember correctly they made their name by publishing sportscard price guides and grading sportscards. If and when I buy an ungraded coin I won't be sending it to Beckett to be graded but I'll send it to NGC as they are more established and respected in the coin grading community.
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On 7/20/2023 at 6:25 PM, VKurtB said:
NEVER use your homeowner insurer!!! EVER!!! My homeowner insurer is USAA, and they will NEVER get a SNIFF at insuring my collection. The ratio between USAA and Hugh Wood was higher than 10:1, and Hugh Wood had less red tape.
Lloyd's of London will be insuring my collection even though I live in the US.
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On 7/20/2023 at 6:19 PM, Sandon said:
Coin collecting, the "hobby of kings", goes back thousands of years, as do coins themselves. Grading services that encapsulate coins have only existed since 1986, when PCGS opened for business. I don't think that any service that regularly even authenticated coins existed before 1972--the year after I started collecting--when the ANA started ANACS as a service that issued black and white photo certificates of authenticity. One avoided counterfeit, altered and overgraded coins by "buy[ing] the book before the coin," purchasing coins from reputable dealers, and learning as much as one could from books and periodicals, from study of the coins themselves, and from experienced collectors and dealers.
This still works today. Collector versions of ASEs can readily be purchased from reputable dealers with their original mint packaging and certificates. All of the Asian-produced fakes I have seen so far have obvious differences from the genuine coins that should be evident to you if you have bothered to look at authenticated examples or even their photos, such as those on PCGS Coinfacts. Even if you buy mostly or only certified coins, there is no substitute for developing your own knowledge, judgment, and taste, which is, for me, what makes coin collecting worthwhile, any financial benefits being at best an afterthought. Before buying coins of any value, you should endeavor to learn about them and ultimately rely on your own judgment about their authenticity and especially their grade notwithstanding any grading service opinion. Evolve from being a "newbie".
As I recall, when PCGS and NGC started business they initially wouldn't accept any coins dated after 1950, which date was gradually changed to 1964 and 1970 before the services eventually began accepting all modern coins. Third-party grading and authentication was believed to be suitable only for coins worth at least hundreds (more likely thousands) of dollars, especially those that were frequently altered or counterfeited or those where a point or two in grade would result in a substantial difference in market value. No one imagined then that people would remove common modern collectors' issues, nearly all of which are superb gems, from their mint packaging, pay grading fees and costs often exceeding their mint issue price, and then sell them for exorbitant prices.
Whether or not to an insure a collection is an entirely different issue that depends on the value of the collection, how it is stored, and other factors. I had never heard of an insurance carrier requiring third party certification for generally low value coins such as ASEs. You may want to shop around for a carrier who has no such requirement.
What is the absolute best book that you would recommend to a newbie coin collector? Keep in mind that I'm looking for only one book.
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On 7/20/2023 at 5:56 PM, VKurtB said:
Okay, I take no responsibility for your bad decision making. Coins ARE NOT INVESTMENTS!!!!!!!! Remember, you read that here.
I never said that coins are an investment. However, in my case the only way I can get them insured is to have them certified / graded by a TPG as I'm not an ANA member. As we all know coins made from gold and silver are most likely to be counterfeited especially rare and or key dates. Don't twist my words.
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On 7/20/2023 at 5:07 PM, VKurtB said:
No, not at all. Most of my collecting career, certification DID NOT EXIST. For the first dozen or so years of American Eagles, certification of THEM didn’t exist. ANA membership gives you access to special numismatic insurance from a carrier (Hugh Wood) that DOES NOT REQUIRE CERTIFICATION, other than for exceptionally valuable pieces (I believe $10K per coin). So…, what was your point again?
I'm not an ANA member and I most likely won't even be. I just tip toe in and out of the hobby as I have other investments.
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On 7/20/2023 at 12:58 PM, VKurtB said:
Why?
Being that I'm a newbie to the hobby don't you think it's a wise idea to have any coins certified and a coin collection insured?
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On 7/20/2023 at 12:00 AM, EagleRJO said:
True, but if you are a newer collector working on a complete set of Burnished or Proof ASEs that's not an option.
What I don't get is why the mint uses the term "Uncirculated" for the Burnished coins as used by the rest of the collecting world and the Red Book.
Yeah I don't understand why they call them "Uncirculated" instead of calling them burnished. Oh well since there's nothing we can do about that.
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I'm a newbie but to me the coin isn't worth getting graded due to it being damaged.
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On 7/19/2023 at 11:28 PM, EagleRJO said:
Not necessarily, unless they are more valuable ones. I have almost a complete 105 coin circulated Morgan collection, and only a handful of the rarer or more valuable ones are graded. Most are just raw BU grade, with some raw XF or AU grade, as many are still commonly available for not that much money.
I only saw his collection once (six years ago) but I think he had either a full set or near a full set. I won't even venture a grade guestimate as I'm a newbie to the hobby.
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On 7/19/2023 at 11:17 PM, EagleRJO said:
For me collecting the bullion ASEs is like my circulated quarters albums or binders of modern Presidential and Innovation $1 coins. Not that it has numismatic value like my Morgan collection, older half dollars or gold coins, but just because I enjoy collecting them.
My dad also collects Morgan dollars - none of which are graded so eventually I'll have to get them graded.
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On 7/19/2023 at 10:50 PM, EagleRJO said:
Even though I prefer coins in OGP, I get that some go for the graded Burnished (Uncirculated) or Proof ASEs. But I just shake my head when people talk about collecting graded bullion coins.
I do collect the bullion ASEs starting with 1986 since they don't cost that much, and have almost all of them with not one graded. All raw BU grade coins for a little above spot, that are either in protective packaging from the dealer or that I do myself just for storage.
I was also working on a complete set of Proof ASEs in OPG starting with 1986, but decided to cancel my subscription after this year due to quality issues the mint doesn't seem interested in correcting. So what's the point of filling in the gaps for Proof ASEs now?
Personally I could never get into the bullion and proof versions of ASE's for some reason. To be completely honest I buy my coins pre graded to avoid a situation that the person who posted about buying a counterfeit coin from MA-shop and for insurance purposes. If I were considering buying a raw coin online I'd ask for opinions from the experienced collectors such as yourself. When I buy gold and silver coins I buy coins that I like the design of and eventually I'll be buying a very nice graded coin display case since I think the graded coin cases offered by NGC and PCGS look cheap.
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On 7/19/2023 at 7:33 PM, VKurtB said:
What has your 2023 cost you in MS 70? Way more than $65.
I haven't bought that one yet. Currently I'm seven coins short of completing the set. The odds are I'll be able to buy the 2023 pre graded NGC MS70 for around $170.00 - $190.00 at most. I remember in 2021 when type 2 came out and people were paying $250.00 - $450.00 for it without any market data to support spending that much money. Needless to say those buyers got hosed on the deal.
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On 7/19/2023 at 6:54 PM, EagleRJO said:
Are you talking about Proof coins? Even then, I buy them in OGP and leave them that way.
No as I only collect the burnished ASE's. In most cases I can buy pre graded NGC MS70 burnished ASE's for an average of around $65.00 each. It would cost way too much to do a complete set of the bullion and proof versions in NGC MS70 grade.
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On 7/18/2023 at 10:17 PM, VKurtB said:
Mine will never be graded ANYTHING. I keep mine strictly in OGP.
I buy mine pre graded by NGC.
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On 7/18/2023 at 9:38 AM, BearlyHereBear said:
Just a thought on proof sets: Clad proof sets are not as likely to appreciate in value over time. Most are readily available on Ebay for very modest prices. Silver proof set hold and gain value better,
When it comes to ASE's, it's usually better to wait a bit after first released and prices drop a bit. This does not apply to special editions (reverse proof, enhanced, privy marked, etc...) as those sell quickly and increase in cost (sometimes at a phenomenal rate).
Of the 3 generally issued types (bullion, proof, and uncirculated or burnished), the uncirculated or burnished always has the lowest mintage (yet is not the most expensive...weird). Easily identifiable since it has a W mint mark which is missing on the bullion coins.
My guess as to why the burnished ASE's aren't the most expensive version is because they are always the last version to enter the marketplace each year. However,if the burnished ASE program were to end that potentially could cause the demand for burnished ASE's to increase which in turn will cause their value to increase drastically especially those that have been graded NGC MS70.
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ASE Newbie Question
in Newbie Coin Collecting Questions
Posted
I only buy coins that I like. It's no different than when I buy a work of art by an old master. The oldest piece I own is by Pierre August -Renoir titled "Still life with roses 2"which was painted around 1907.