Hoghead515

On 9/2/2023 at 10:58 AM, zadok said:

...hog let me throw out a food for though comment...since u seem intrigued by the british trade n conder tokens n considering where u live n the fact u seldom get to many coin shows in person, perhaps u mite consider a more available but similar collecting endeavor...US mine store tokens, particularly from ur n my area, appalachia, plus u already r collecting KY store card tokens...there r literally thousands of collectable examples if u consider all mines n denominations...there is a published catalog of these tokens n i believe i have a couple copies of it, if u decide to pursue ill mail u a copy...just as i mentioned, food for thought...more mine tokens than british trade tokens in KY....

Ive look at several of those and Ive thought about it for a long time. I enjoy collecting local tokens of any type. I just may consider doing that. I think its neat where we work all over Ky getting to see some of the little towns Ive got tokens that was from there. We see old shut down coal mines everywhere. See several reclaimed strip jobs also. Thats interesting how the miners used those tokens to get food and supplies.

On 9/2/2023 at 9:34 AM, farthing said:

Great Britain has a long history of not producing enough small currency to support the needs of commerce.  Notable periods of the populace resorting to the use of tokens to facilitate trade include the 1660's, 1790's and the 1810's, each of which have a vast variety of tokens to collect and many ardent collectors.  Properly the tokens from the 1790's are '18th Century Provincial Token Coinage'  but commonly referred to in the US as 'Conder' tokens after James Conder.  James was not the first contemporary cataloger of the tokens but his was the first work used widely by collectors.  His book was subsequently replaced by James Atkins book 'Tradesmen's Tokens of the 18th Century' and finally by the Dalton & Hamer book 'The Provincial Token Coinage of the 18th Century'

Many of the tokens were used in commerce (genuine trade tokens or GTT) while others were general tokens for trade, political tokens, private tokens, and medaletts made for collectors.  They were actively collected in the 1790's which helps account to the huge numbers still found in mint condition.

There are more than 1000 varieties of GTT

If you would like to see some of the variety of tokens my Registry collection of these tokens can be found here: https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/wcm/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=1394

Thank you for sharing.  That is a very impressive collection. I love how detailed it is and the work and research you put into it. Ive been wanting to learn more about these and your registry set is very helpful. 

On 9/2/2023 at 8:30 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

 

I apologize in advance if my posts are mundane, obvious, ignorant or come off boring. I know time and time again seasoned people on here see the same things and it probably wears them. 

Thank you all for your time and patience 

You are doing fine. Its great to see someone on here willing to learn. You cant learn if you dont ask questions. Thats why this part in the forum is labeled Newbie Forum. So new collectors can ask questions and learn. I was the same way when I first started collecting. Its great to see someone like you thats willing to learn and take advice from the more experienced experts. We see alot of people on here who demand their damaged coins are something they are not. They wont listen to the advice of the experts and demand they are wrong and their beat up coins are valuable errors. Some people dont want to accept reality and want us to lie to them. Weve seen all sorts on here. Your doing great. You are willing to learn. If you stick around here and read all the different post and ask questions you will learn a whole lot. Just dont let the trolls discourage you. We get plenty of those also. Ive came a long way in the hobby by staying active on this forum. 

On 9/1/2023 at 11:22 AM, Buy A. Coin said:

Where 

Why would you waste money having a coin like that graded? Not being mean or anything. Just curious. Its only worth a little of face value and the grading fees are very expensive. Im just wondering why someone would wrap a $100 piece of plastic around a 10 cent coin. Espically it being cleaned. Its definately not an error coin. If it were an error it still wouldnt be worth the grading fees. 

I agree with the others. Damage. The 2 took a hit from something and displaced the metal. Ive got a jar full of wheaties and several look alot like that from the damage they recieved over the years. 

Mine has been lagging pretty bad. It only logs me every few days. 

If they were mine Id definately keep them. But I dont sell hardly anything. I really like both of those. Espically the 1885. Love the toning on it. If you did sell it would probably fetch a good price due to the demand of toned coins. Those are some beauties. That 85 is stunning. If I were fortunate to add a beauty like that to my collection Id definately keep it there and pass it on for my kids to admire. 

On 8/30/2023 at 8:47 PM, Sandon said:

    I'm glad you didn't take any offense, Hoghead.  My late mother continually corrected everyone's spelling, grammar, and diction; and I can't help but do it as well.  I don't know whether it's hereditary or just out of habit.  A member of my local coin club also transposes the last two letters of the word "nickel" and persists in doing so even though I've politely attempted to corrected him. At times, it makes me want to scream!

   As the previously linked Wikipedia article indicates, Conder tokens are named after James Conder (1761-1823), who collected and initially cataloged these late eighteenth century tradesmen's tokens, which were issued due to a severe shortage of coins in Britain at that time. There are thousands of different designs. The numbers 1-72 on the left side of the chart refer to individual counties to which tokens can be attributed, with the name of the county in the second column, and the number of different token designs in the third. Just for county number 21, Middlesex, there appear to be 1,174 different types of tokens known. They were avidly collected even at the time they were issued, so there are many pieces in or near uncirculated condition. Many of these tokens were made at Matthew Boulton's Soho mint, which also supplied many planchets for early U.S. half cents and large cents.

Oh no I dont take offence at all. I like when people correct me so I can learn from it. I apriceate it when people correct me and try to teach me the proper spelling, proper terms, etc.  Theres very little that I take offence to. Im probably one of the easiest going people you will ever meet. Thank you for teaching me the proper spelling of them. Never know I may have used that term later on and someone may think Im talking about a token with a big buzzard looking bird on it. 

Thanks for sharing that info. I never realized there were so many of them. It would bout be impossible to collect them all. I was reading that chart wrong. Thats crazy. Hard telling how many engravers there were engraving the dies for them. That opens up a massive opportunity for collectors to start a collection of them. So many ways. Collect by countries or just however they would want to go about it. The more Im learning about these the more Im talking myself into wanting to start a set of them myself. If I do I probably wont go about it in any particular way. Probably just pick ones I like,  put them in cardboard flips, and put them in a box labeled Conder tokens. I find several of the designs very facinating. 

In that article where it talks about classification.  Does that mean theres 72 varieties of these tokens that were struck? I seen where it said some are very rare. That would be quite a feat to try and put a whole set together. Thats some interesting history behind them. Thanks for sharing @Sandon

Its definately pmd or post mint damage. Happend after it left the mint. 

On 8/30/2023 at 6:20 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Looking at them it looks like you can collect them fairly cheap in circulated condition. Ive seen a few I really like. I actually bid on one several months ago. It was one with a crane on it. It was in decent shape. I was the only bidder for days and it got all the way down to the last 3 seconds and someone out bid me. I was so excited because I really wanted it and thought it was gonna be mine. I was a little heartbroken when they sniped it out under my nose. But thats the nature of the beast. I always wondered if it may have been the owner not wanting to let it go so cheap. But I dont think it was because I never seen it come up for sale again. I wish I had bid a few dollars over the minimum bid just in case. But hind sight is 20/20 as the old saying goes. Im still happy someone got to add that beauty to their collection even though it wasnt me. 

I actually just looked on Ebay and found the same exact token. Only its got a $65 price tag on it now. If Id got it in that auction Id got it for less than half that last time. 

I agree with Sandon. Its just heavily damaged. People do all sorts of crazy things to coins. Weve seen a little bit of everything on here. I dont know if its from boredom or trying to pass some off as mint errors. Or crude art projects. Looks like its had a sander or something of that nature taken to it. If you learn how the minting process works you will learn theres no way possible for it to happen at the mint. 

Looking at them it looks like you can collect them fairly cheap in circulated condition. Ive seen a few I really like. I actually bid on one several months ago. It was one with a crane on it. It was in decent shape. I was the only bidder for days and it got all the way down to the last 3 seconds and someone out bid me. I was so excited because I really wanted it and thought it was gonna be mine. I was a little heartbroken when they sniped it out under my nose. But thats the nature of the beast. I always wondered if it may have been the owner not wanting to let it go so cheap. But I dont think it was because I never seen it come up for sale again. I wish I had bid a few dollars over the minimum bid just in case. But hind sight is 20/20 as the old saying goes. Im still happy someone got to add that beauty to their collection even though it wasnt me. 

Ive looked at condor tokens a few times and found them fun to look through. They would probably be fun to assemble a collection of them. Ive given it thought from time to time but I got so many different things started now I still havent finished. Maybe one of these days. My question is, were they ever used here as currency before a mint was established? I know of a few other forms of currency that was but Ive wondered if any of those tokens was ever used to barter with in this country in the 1700s. I figured some of you on here would know from your years of collecting and knowledge. If anyone has anything else related to condor tokens other than the question I asked feel free to share it. Myself and probably others would love to know all sorts of history about them. 

Can you post clear cropped photos of both sides? 

It all depends on the condition. If its very heavily circulated its not worth much over face value. On in uncirculated condition can fetch higher depending on condition. 

On 8/29/2023 at 10:47 PM, TheColoradoNumismatist said:

Sorry those are both Large Dates @Stockwiz78 I took the time out of my day, and took pictures of an 1982 Lincoln Cent Set that I have that shows all SEVEN different varieties of that coin. But here's two pictures to help show you what you have. Hope this clears it up for you.

The close up pictures, the one with the Dot to the right of the "D" Denver Mint Mark is the Small Date.

Happy Hunting ~ TheColoradoNumismatist

Those are some of the best pictures ive seen showing the difference in these. Thanks for sharing. Be very handy for new collectors.