Fenntucky Mike

Once you gather some more information you can call and email NGC directly to see if this is something they would even consider taking a look at, send them pics, etc.. They'll take a pass on stuff like this sometimes due to lack of information/documentation, other examples, etc.. If they tell you no, it'll save you the cost of blindly sending it in, if they say yes then at least you know they'll take a look. Also, I don't rule out the possibility of a different diameter or off metal patterns, or whatever these might be, that's part of what I'd be researching when looking into to the possibly different diameter patterns. If you're lucky there these will be documented in a reference somewhere but you may have to translate it from French or some other language. The auction listing in the picture I posted hints at the pattern in the listing possibly being KM-E4 "but no metal stated", that could be another avenue of research. EDIT TO ADD: On some level the burden of proof is on you, the more information you have and the more you know what you're talking about the better your odds of having NGC take a look at and authenticate a piece if there is little to no documentation. It can be a struggle with world coins sometimes. Good Luck.

Can't say as I agree with NGC now, assuming the information you've given about the coins is accurate, but it seems that they do not want to differentiate between the two for whatever reason. You're just going to have to live with it or send it to PCGS or ANACS if they do, it looks like NGC has zero red variants of these in their pop report so no luck finding one in an old slab. You could also continue to try and negotiate with NGC but it would be better to do that outside of the forum. Good luck.

Don't know why but there are plenty of varieties that NGC does not recognize and many reasons why. Too minor, not popular, not enough examples, not really a variety, etc., if it's not on their variety plus list they probably won't go for it and you should check with NGC prior to sending. I'm assuming that the "Red" gold coins are due to more copper being added to the some of the batches of gold used to produce the blanks. The batches and color of the metal could potentially vary widely depending on QC at the producing mint or refinery and if true where does NGC draw the line as to what is regular gold colored and what is red gold colored? How much copper and/or silver is in red gold? What is an acceptable range for "Red" gold? Should this be an error and not a variety? Should there be additional color varieties? Is candy apple red acceptable but coral red not? Trying to define that dividing line is, or probably will be, a bigger headache for NGC than it's worth, more unsatisfied people and work to determine type, as opposed to saying they do not differentiate. After thinking about this while writing my response I tend to agree with NGC in not differentiating unless there is a very clear and defined difference between mixes/coins. Could be an interesting discussion.... which I seem to have already had with myself. Sorry you're unhappy with your results, it's understandable.

The circulating coinage was produced in South Africa from what I read, that could explain the use of "PAT." or "PATT". If the patterns were produced there that is.

With the better images the design on yours is looking closer to the one I posted, which isn't a great pic either. Based on the information given the diameter on your piece is (20.3mm) compared to what the listing I posted states (22mm), that would lead me to speculate that what you have is a normal coin on which someone stamped "PATT", as the listed diameter for the circulating coinage is 20.2mm. The counterstamp being different is not a good sign either, but not necessarily a deal breaker, and the off color (if a normal circulation coin) could be due to several factors. The listed weight for the circulating coinage is 2.760g, the weight listed for the example I posted is 2.63g, there is probably some overlap there with the tolerances but it would still be useful information to have. Seems a little odd to me that the pattern would be 2mm larger than the circulating coinage but not out of the realm of possibilities. I would see if you can find additional examples of this pattern coin listed and gather any information available on them, the diameter variation is what I would be trying to verify. You currently have a nothingburger but I would still put a little more legwork into gathering some data.

What is the weight, thickness, and diameter? Looking around the web I've found some other pattern coins of this type, yours doesn't match up with any of the other examples I've seen, and given the strange wear/weakness it makes me suspicious. I'd have to lean towards this not being authentic unless better information can be provided.

I suspected it was this set, I've read a lot of complaints about the quality of these coins and am not surprised by your results. Definitely not worth resubmitting imo.

I love me some NCLT but I'll take a pass on the ASE's. I have not bought one, and yes it is a sales ploy, but the reason these are big no for me is that 75k is a HUGE mintage and even though ASE's are extremely popular I feel there is a big potential downside with U.S. Mint products like this. I'll stick to paying around spot for world NCLT/bullion pieces that I like.

It's more likely that those are "unfinished" areas on the die, obstructed areas, or spots where the etching/frosting fell off or was damaged, and are showing up as black spots in the fields of the coin. NGC, seemingly, doesn't detract for flaws such as this since they are not technically damage. Only NGC can load images on their website. No way to tell if the images of coins in registry sets are of the actual coin being used in the set but only the registry set "owner" can upload images, or someone using their password, NGC doesn't mess with individuals registry set images. If you contact NGC they can give you a date range of when the coin was graded usually. I think. It's common for some of the larger sellers to use stock images, if the seller has a return policy I would consider sending this one back.

Could be due to turnaround times at NGC lagging behind PCGS, not sure if that's actually true or not though. If NGC world coins sell at a premium compared to PCGS wouldn't you wait rather than leave $'s on the table? I don't know if PCGS is incentivizing people in an effort to generate more world coin submissions but I don't remember ever seeing this many on the market previously. The biggest eye opener is the number of PCGS slabs I've see in auctions recently, HA, S&B, etc., will sometimes have more PCGS than NGC world coins in their auction listings. Is PCGS making a stronger play for world coins in anticipation of potential market loss to CACG? The current NYINC auction listings seem more inline with what I would normally expect as far as a split between NGC and PCGS, 3:1 or higher depending on which auction/session, auctions prior to this were much closer with the split or seemingly flipped.

Which coins did you submit? It'd most likely be a waste of money to resubmit them.

You know it has a MAC sticker on it now, don't you. Smart move to pass this up, someone is looking for a sucker to take the bait.

I'd pass and wait for a better looking example of this type.

Only if they sell a boat load of them, so no. If NGC had developed a platform that was for NGCX coins or allowed their inclusion in the current registries this would have had a better chance of getting off the ground. I'm a little surprised that they didn't launch both at the same time, guess NGC never really thought this would take off either. Vault Box seems to be doing well though and those are only NGCX coins if I remember correctly.

I would normally toss this aside as MD but the visible doubling in 'SOUTH AFRICA" is on the left side but the doubling in "1968" is on the right and everything looks to "sharp" to be DDD. It could be a true DD but it's very minor if it is. I see this coin is for sale, were you looking to purchase it?

Triopoly, with CACG at the top and everybody wondering if all the U.S. coins in PCGS and NGC holders weren't good enough to cross. I wonder if this possibility has anything to do with the number of world coins in brand new PCGS holders hitting the market the past 6 months. I've never seen so many PCGS world coins, they don't pull in premiums like PCGS U.S. coins do over NGC U.S. typically Premiums for CAC stickered coins will probably go up multiples compared to any of the three TPG slabs if/when they stop.

My guess is that NCS would "conserve" most if not all of the coins since it was requested and charge the full amount, a good question for the Ask NGC sub forum, all the more reason to let NGC decide. Kind of like when someone sends in a parking lot coin and pays for the Mint Error service, they are going to charge you and take a look. I sent in a 17 coin submission a few months back and 5 of the coins were recommended for NCS conservation, after the coins came back from conservation they all increased by 2-3 grades when returned to NGC for regrading, which has been typical in my experience. The risk you run with this is that there may be coins you were absolutely convinced needed conservation and they don't get recommended for it, that's why you're having NGC look at them first and then recommend NCS if it's needed. If you sent all of your coins to NCS then to NGC you would have optimized their potential but likely frittered away $'s. EDIT: Just read the other thread and it sounds like NCS will charge a $5 fee if they feel a coin would not benefit from conservation. Not a bad deal.

Congrats!

My understanding is that all packages are opened in the order they are received, I don't know that NGC gives special treatment to "WK" packages in the from of moving them to the front of the line ahead of packages received days or weeks earlier but maybe. Wouldn't seem fair to me if they did nor consistent as I imagine many "WK" would get missed due to poor labeling, no labeling, or other factors. NGC is currently opening mail delivered the week of Nov. 11th, I take that to mean the 13th, and they have been updating that information regularly. My guess is that NGC will probably log your package by the end of next week based on how my latest submissions have gone through.

So glad that I can have all my parcels delivered to work. I have never had one bad experience since I made that change and no worries or waiting for deliveries, FedEx, UPS, DHL, USPS stop here everyday at a scheduled time.

It's a normal cent struck for circulation at the Philadelphia Mint, not a proof, any doubling is either mechanical or too minor to be of interest, value one cent.

Polish lines in the fields. Planchet flaw on the high points, thin flan or weak strike? Interesting piece regardless.