Crawtomatic

On 11/17/2022 at 8:32 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

I will point out that comics and baseball (sports) cards use the 10 point scale, and it seems to work well for them. Both of those types of collectibles are often subject to large amounts of wear. Being paper, they also degrade much more easily than coins. So, if it works for them, it can probably work for us too. 

Biggest problem... the coin industry has been around a bit longer, and you've got a lot of people used to the current system. Grading comics and video games is a very recent development, comparatively, and so they didn't have anything else to convert from. 

Cards have a lot less points on the scale.  Only the half grades.  [Unless you consider that SGC used a 100 point scale well in the past they had to convert to the 10 point scale.  I feel like that was when they were part of the CCG umbrella but I'm not certain.)

This NGCX scale feels more akin to comics/magazine/publications grading.  Which I'd point out is about as well established as coin encapsulation in tenure.  It's definitely usable but needs more depth on the low end to capture everything we have in the Sheldon/ANA scale.

On 11/12/2022 at 10:57 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Unless the gap is very wide...persistent...and nobody else sees it....I think dealing with illiquid items like coins it's tough to arbitrage the difference.  It's not like trying to sell a stock and seeing it sell for 10% higher on another exchange and you can hit the SELL button for either exchange in seconds.

Very much agreed.  I watched it but didn't act on it much as I would have if I were a gambler.  The big unknown is whether a coin will cross due to the largely subjective nature of grading and weight on eye appeal.  There used to be a sizable gap between high grade business strike SBA's but I don't know if it's closed at all.

On 11/12/2022 at 2:54 PM, EagleRJO said:

@Simple Collectorthose are both PCG$ ones where their price guides are complete wacked because PCG$ jacked up values at the huge price spike earlier this year and they haven't come down since.

Oh wait.  Being completely honest here, I've been way more focused on comics & cards the past year just letting the coin collection marinate.  Are you saying there's been a run-up in PCGS prices vs. NGC for the same/similar coins?  I used to watch that kind of thing in the past for good crack & resubmit for profit opportunities.  If there's a wide margin between NGC & PCGS in the same grade some of the bidding could be from crossover potential.

Just checked and yeah, that would be a good candidate coin.  If it crosses for a straight grade you have to be able to stomach a 1 or 2 grade difference.  But not so much when there's a green bean present.  

On 11/12/2022 at 3:06 PM, Simple Collector said:

Those are actual auction sales on Great Collections from this year. Not price guides.

Right.  I was referring more to Eagle who quoted the NGC price guide of $300.

But other than GC, I'd also check eBay & HA for comps.  Maybe even David Lawrence's site to see if they've got a similar item listed retail.  At least on most widget type coins.  If something is especially rare then it's a best guess situation.

I have not considered the NGC price guide to be current in some time now.  Though, that stands for most price guides published.  Sales history, past & current, is typically a better source of value.  What I find price guides good for is to quickly skim a list and see which items stand out from the rest - they're usually keys, and semi-keys then.

I don't know the Morgan series as much as others but it's possible there's an unattributed VAM involved.  

On 11/11/2022 at 4:27 PM, EagleRJO said:

I thought that was Ricky's call! 

Btw, I have never seen anything on the French coin grading system. 70 max like in the US?

I think so.  There was this TPG set to enter the market in France back in 2018 called GENI.  Super cool little holder if you ask me.  But I'm not sure if it was vaporware or still active.  The website still shows en construction and all the images are similar types of pics.

https://numismag.com/en/2018/02/14/challenger-francais-monde-grading-numismatique/grading-monnaie-geni-numismag-1/

* Oh wait, no.  It's a different scale.  There's an "F 99" on one of these listed for sale on eBay.  258 current listings (including the false flag keywords).  Curious to know if they're still going or if this is just leftovers.

On 11/9/2022 at 4:46 PM, Coinbuf said:

I think you will now have to explain to him what a burner phone is.  

Man, I was actually giving serious thoughts to the etymology of that term the past weekend.  Burner has been used before to describe guns either stolen or used in a crime.  That predates the existence of cellphones but the premise applies.  Something you use once then toss.

Then I started wondering 'why burner?' Is it because guns of questionable provenance may not necessarily be cleaned and serviced?  Resulting in a firearm malfunction causing....burns.  I think that's possible.

I want to say I even read in passing the usage of the word burner to describe a gun during the prohibition days.  But can't seem to find a reference for that currently.

On 11/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, VKurtB said:

Sorry, I don’t know what ALT is. I mean, yeah, it’s a type of German “bier” made near Düsseldorf, but otherwise…?

But aside from not knowing what ALT is, I’ll bet I won’t care either. 

ALT = alternate account.  Like a burner phone for social media.

I'm not sure he intended the remark for you or the author of the topic.  It's just....there.

On 11/7/2022 at 3:05 AM, EagleRJO said:

"Slider" can mean different things to different people, in different situations. It can mean a lightly circulated coin that has been cleaned and dipped in chemicals to improve its appearance, and look very shiny like a uncirculated coin. That is meant in a derogatory way when done with the intent to fool a collector.

Then there is what I think is the more common usage, and how I often use the term, which is an about uncirculated coin that is a very high AU grade with only very minor issues that may not be readily apparent and could "slide" into an MS grade depending on the grader and other factors.

So, I think you really have to take the context of the situation to get how the term is being used.

I don't recall if I read this or just imagined it but the term slider may also have roots in commerce.  Change, typically coins, being given back to a customer by slid across a counter.  Just enough wear and friction to break luster on the high points on an otherwise uncirculated coin.

On 10/17/2022 at 2:24 PM, Just Bob said:

What's up Crawdad? How have you been?

Hey Bob!  I've been great.  Thanks for asking. Probably been more involved on the CGC forums over the past year (or lurking on blowoutcards) as I shifted collecting focus back to comics & cards.  How's everything with you? 

On 10/11/2022 at 10:45 AM, Medrogean said:

 Hi! As you have already been told, this coin is of no value. But you can bend e, and maybe your great-grandchildren will get rich on the sale. So, in your place, I didn't give it to anyone and took care of it. Or you are an atheist to give it to someone; you can use gift baskets or something similar and keep this coin with you. I think over time; it will gain value from collectors. But after that, a lot of time. Of course, it's up to you to decide.

annnnnddd.....that's my reminder why I don't check into these forums as often as I used to. 

The more I read it the more I'm convinced it's a chatbot testing.

@W4CLM

Hi Carol.  When you see the response, "Our team has decided this coin is best represented in a Custom NGC Registry set." I believe the message is that there is simply not enough interest from the coin collecting community to warrant NGC investing time & resources to create a new set list, determine values, host the pages, etc...  

I would very much doubt it is related to recognizing the geography and established statehood of each country.

On 6/15/2022 at 3:32 PM, Six Mile Rick said:

The steps are broken up and therefor it is a no step nickel.

In addition, the wear and marks on Monticello show it to be circulated so it wouldn't qualify for a FS designation anyhow.  Not that it would qualify either way.

I think $600 would be optimistic.  I'd expect somewhere around $200 in an auction setting.

@Outhaulhe included the cert number so it's easy to lookup the NGC images.

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/5954708-001/66/

from the label:  Mint Error Struck on 50c Thickness Stock (6.2g), AU55

On 8/22/2021 at 9:53 AM, RWB said:

So, give it a try.

BTW - once you get behind the table you become an "instant expert" to potential customers.

This "instant expert" perception is most likely true.  That would explain the dealers I've encountered that put me off once I hear them talking authoritatively about a topic or item even if incorrect.  Certainly not limited to numismatics but with so many different avenues of collecting, classifying, and researching nobody is expected to be an expert on each.  I'd be far more impressed, and likely to do continued business, with a dealer who said something was outside of his expertise but either suggested or introduced me to somebody else at the show who knew more on the subject.

@124Spider Keep in mind it's still the day of release as well.  We're yet to see how it works out and if the supply truly is enough for demand.  The online sales currently of pre-order status for an item that ships in 2 months could very well be inflated by FOMO affect.  Fear Of Missing Out for those unfamiliar with the acronym.  Or the current pricing could be deflated based on resellers not willing to float the expense for 2 months.  

Last year for instance I considered the 400th Anniversary items for a potential flip.  Ultimately decided not to.  They they sold out in 30 minutes and I doubted how well I knew the hobby.  But here, 9 months later, you can get them on the secondary market for barely above issue price.  Seller's probably close to breaking even after fees.

On 8/3/2021 at 1:40 PM, 124Spider said:

I have no issue with market forces doing what they do; I have an issue with the Mint selling these for below-market prices, thereby enriching the dealers, who immediately list them on eBay for three times what they paid.  Why doesn't the Mint either make more of them, to satisfy the actual demand, or charge more?

That's a legit thought.  But then they run the risk of not selling their inventory.  As long as they're pricing the item at a comfortable profit margin they're better off selling out completely than warehousing product for months/years trying to milk it for full profit.

Though it would be pretty sweet to have an option similar to Heritage's where you can make an offer on a coin direct through the registry. 

Agree with RWB on this based on the question asked by OP.

If OP had asked about adding value then there's other factors to consider.  i.e., likelihood of grading PF70 and then whether or not that's the median grade or above average.

On 8/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, Treeman said:

For those who will say that they only want it for their collection, and don't care about value or scarcity.... If the market were flooded with 1793 Chain Cents, and they sold for 5 cents apiece, how many would love to own one? No challenge to find a nice example, no pride in owning a scarce piece...

This comes to mind every time I see a discussion - regardless of topic - where collectors condemn speculators/flippers/scalpers.  

"1964 SMS"...."Branch Proof Morgans"...."(a 3rd example would be nice)".....if you choose to hunt MobyDick-type coins that may or may not just be creative marketing and not actually different than high grade production items then there's going to be a lot of failure along the way with no guarantee of success.  There's a lot of other items to hunt that are less stressful & less infuriating.