Crawtomatic

8 hours ago, CBC said:

You can limit bidding to only established ebay users who have more than X number of positive feedbacks as a buyer.  That won’t reduce your risk to zero but at least makes the scammer invest significant effort in creating a history of positive transactions.

I've had a few large dollar auctions close lately with non-paying bidders so I looked into some of this recently.  

Buyer Management:  https://www.ebay.com/bmgt/buyerrequirements

You can block buyers that have caused cancellations due to unpaid items automatically.  You can choose how many cancellations and the length of time to apply it to.

I did not see a way to block bidders by feedback score automatically, however, when I relisted the items that had non-payment I specifically indicated in the body that bidders with less than 10 feedback and/or excessive negative feedback may have their bids cancelled.  Then I had to monitor the listings within the last 30 minutes, and especially within the last 5, to cancel any last minute shill bidders or trolls.

I work in insurance so I've always got concerns of fraud.  Fortunately I haven't had a bad experience in the 20 years I've been on eBay.  Lost or damaged packages, sure, but nothing major that I've ever felt may be fraudulent.

20 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

What I would have liked was for RARCOA to just take regular NGC-graded coins and if THEY saw something exceptional in the coins AFTER NGC graded, then sticker them. 

Oh, but what if they are taking regular NGC graded coins that they see something exceptional in and instead of stickering them they're sending them back to NGC to be re-holdered with their custom label?

That would be an easy way to build up inventory without having to source a lot of exceptional raw coins.  The re-holder process doesn't include regrading so it's pretty straightforward and cost efficient.  Then RARCOA gets the coin back and upcharges for their opinion which is displayed by the custom label.

It's a slightly different business model than CAC since coin owners cannot submit for their opinion and a sticker.  Their website is baby fresh right now.  Just the shell, some reference pages, but no inventory listed.  So just speculation on my part.

Oh, found one of the other ones while browsing GC auction archives.  QA - http://qacoins.com/

The sticker is no more obtrusive than a CAC sticker and the grading criteria is sound.  

1. 3c worth of copper is better than 1c worth of zinc.  

2. If you see it on a coin (or card, or comic, or MOC action figure) then the grader will too.  Be honest with yourself first.

On 4/4/2021 at 10:05 AM, Alex in PA. said:

I wonder who those folks are and why they don't like a sticker on their slab?  More stickers means more value; right?

Surely I'm not the only one that's heard/read the complaints about the other sticker companies.  MAC & Wings are the 2 I can think of offhand without doing some Google or eBay listing research. 

WINGS actually serves a good purpose in my opinion - essentially the CAC equivalent for world coins - just not much market desirability for such a product.  More than likely due to the world coin market lacking in widget type coins sold sight unseen (to steal a descriptor from Condor).

MAC, on the other hand, is all over the place.  Way too many categories.  Categories that don't matter ("4.5 Steps", "RNBO", "90RD").  There doesn't appear to be a uniform method to where the sticker is applied to the holder AND they stack them.  So if they have 2-3 stickers to apply it starts to look like a race car.

On 4/1/2021 at 5:45 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/8701/ngc-green-label/ 

So it seems the green label is like a 'star' designation? RARCOA cheery picks, NGC verifies and RARCOA backs them up in the market. This all sounds familiar but why didn't RARCOA just come up with their own sticker?

Perhaps to avoid the onslaught of "OMG not another sticker" chatter.  It seems certain folks really dislike the stickers.  To the point that if a new player decided to just create a super-holder and encapsulate an encapsulated coin with their own labeling I wouldn't be so surprised.

You're very right @Coinbuf and I gave bad advice in light of them being gold coins.  That's literally the title of the topic and I didn't take it into account.

Assuming you don't want retail values I find the GreatCollections Auction Archives to be a reasonable source for auction pricing results and easier to navigate than other sources.  You'll need to setup an account to see the prices realized.

https://www.greatcollections.com/Auction-Archive/US-Coin-Prices/

If you have an item that is a rarity then I'd suggest expert opinion on pricing.  Post it/them here and you'll have plenty of responses.

@GoldFinger1969 Any idea how to find out who was the winning buyer in any of these auctions?  Would you have to contact the gallery and ask for that info?

Also, just came across this guy's site of catalogs, prices realized lists, and other related items.  http://brycebooks.squarespace.com/storage/Coin-Auction-Catalogs.htm 

I'm sure you've seen it but just in case.

12 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Thanks Craw, very interesting.   Great job !  

I am pretty sure that the official rating of MS-65 is not an actual TPG certification but the grade that "Choice Uncirculated" corresponded to back pre-1986.

I wonder if that High Relief actually might score an actual MS-67 from the TPGs.  Probably well-taken care of if it was one that actually belonged to Teddy R.....probably a $60,000-$100,000 coin today.

I have lots of "wonders" about that particular coin.  The proof IHC above it is described as being cleaned/lightly polished and it was also owned by his Teddy and his daughter.  So then I'd wonder if the 1907 had any signs of similar treatment. 

But mostly I wonder if it ever was encapsulated by a subsequent owner.  Hopefully the label would display it's provenance but if it doesn't then it could lose it over time if it got subjected to crackouts & resubs.  Grade aside, I think it would be a shame to lose knowledge that this coin was owned by Roosevelt.

Ok, @GoldFinger1969 - here's one for you:

The Roy Harte Collection, Part III - January 25-27, 1983

Lot 641:  Famous MCMVII High Relief Double Eagle Formerly Owned by President Roosevelt.  Sold for $19,800 and has a nice write up plus color photo.  I'll see if I can add the images here w/o reducing their size too much.  If it's too difficult to read let me know and I'll transcribe it.

The spine is broken on this catalog and repaired with a strip of packing tape.  Which is unfortunate because it doesn't appear to have been heavily thumbed or worn, just stored too dry.

On 1/10/2021 at 1:07 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's awesome.....wonder if they have any unique commentary or writings on Saints or 1907 High Reliefs ?

Ok, still getting around to this but due to an issue with my eBay store I'm working out with them I have some additional time.

First catalog pulled is "The Garrett Colection Sales" Sale 4, March 25-26, 1981.  No Saints or double eagles of any kind but it's the auction with the 1787 Brasher Doubloon, punch mark on breast.  Very nice full 2 page full color blocks of obverse & reverse along with 3 pages written up regarding the coin.  Author not notated but I'm guessing it may have been Bowers as he did the foreword.  Nice condition on the catalog.  Includes the bid sheet still attached inside the back cover and the Prices Realized mailer that was sent out later.  It's funny, not in a haha way, but interesting, that the coin was graded in VF condition back then and now lives in an AU50 holder.

I'll update you if I come across any Saints/high relief info in these others.

5 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Probably $150 or so if you bought them on Ebay, unless they were in bad condition.

Not CGC 10's by any means but very nice copies actually.  They're softcover and only 1 or 2 even shows a spine crease.  A previous owner taped an asterisk on the spine of them all like you'd see reference books shelved in a library but without any other catalog system in place.  Some even include the original auction by mail paperwork and/or the subsequent "Prices Realized" paperwork that was mailed out.  Which, for an ephemera interested guy like me not even born until the late 70s, is a pretty neat find and glimpse into how it all worked back then.

I've sorely been lacking as it goes to reviewing these like I said I would.  I'll try again.

On 1/14/2021 at 4:43 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

I was just charged again last night, for the SECOND time, for a no-charge re-holder.  From November.  

Same for me last night on a no-charge reholder that was mailed out this week.  Email in to get it resolved hopefully.

But to the OP, yeah, I've had it come up a time or 2.  My only qualm is the documentation isn't clear as to what the charge is for.  You get the Invoice which is nice & detailed, then you get the Credit Card Acknowledgement which only includes the Submission number.  Usually what I've seen is a small charge for a prior submission included (additional line).  Then I have to contact Lisa to get the details on it for cost allocations.

On 1/10/2021 at 1:07 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's awesome.....wonder if they have any unique commentary or writings on Saints or 1907 High Reliefs ?

I haven't had time this week to go through them and check.  But the Oct. 1982 auction for the New York Public Library has some good info on certain Colonial issues, a unique 50c over 1c overstrike, and certain medals.  Once I get to go through these I'll keep an eye out for Saints or High Relief info for you.

I "lucked" into 14 Bowers catalogs from 1979 - 1984 at a secondhand store last year.  Couldn't pass them up at 50c apiece.  Mostly Bowers & Merena Gallery or Bowers & Ruddy.  I was super thrilled when I picked them up but can't say I've referenced them more than a few times since.  As long as I have bookshelf space they've got a home.

2 hours ago, Ray, USMC said:

I would like to inquire about an issue that could also create a cheater winning. Since you can acquire a certification number (just say from an ebay sale post) and go to verify the coin and hit I own this coin and add it to your set and remove it after you win. There is no verification of winning sets being what you have entered as owned. Just saying a cheater is a cheater and will always find a way to beat the system. Rules only keep honest people honest, crooks and cheaters don't care.

I couldn't guess how widespread, but I'm sure that could happen.  Over the past 3 years I've submitted raw and sold the coins as certified later.  Generally I add each to my "Own the Coin" section after grading is completed so I can release it to the new owner once it's sold.  Of all the coins sold, I've only gotten the automated request to transfer a coin to the new owner a few times.  That alone implies there's far more collectors not using the registry than are. 

Even had a guy contact me 8 months after a sale asking if I still had the original photos because the coin was stolen.  I sent those to him and told him to create a registry profile so I could even transfer the coin to him.  That way if a transfer request came through in the future he'd be able to track down where his stolen coin was.  But he didn't and it's still showing in my competitive coins, though not in any sets.

Well stated @JKK

As for reporting and what eBay will do I don't have much insight.  I know there's times I'll go through and report each listing that has NGC/PCGS in the item details when it's a raw coin but that hasn't stopped ArlingtonCoins or others from listing them.  I don't mind if it's search manipulation and it's limited to the title of the listing but when a seller puts it in the item details then that affects the filters.  Generally I only bother with a watchdog move like that when I have a listing in said category of world or minor coins where the population of actual encapsulated items is a small percentage of the market.

Devil's Advocate for potential shill bidders.  There's seller tools for distribution lists and marketing emails.  It's possible that these same bidders all receive the weekly marketing email and are interested in the items up for auction.  If they're similar type coins I could see that.  If they're different coin types with the same bidders then it'd get a little more questionable.

Thanks for crushing my hopes & dreams David. 

I still think it really cool that I can get responses from a superstar like yourself.

@Cresencio1982 is a special year of course.  The Mint transitioned planchets from the bronze (copper) alloy to the zinc midstream and also had some differences in the dies relative to the dates.  I think there's something like 7 varieties but it may be up to 8 now if you consider the '82-D Small Date Bronze which wasn't supposed to happen.

For the Large Date/Small Date distinction look at the 2.  If it's thicc & chunky then it's the large date.  If it's thin & delicate then it's the small date.  All of yours shown here are Large Dates.

I don't have a digital scale that goes down to the tenth place (.1) as it's not something I've needed in my focus of the hobby so far.  If you do, then weighing them all to determine 3.1 g vs. 2.8 g should be easy enough.  I used to have the popsicle stick tool to measure bronze vs zinc weight.  Simple lever tool based on counterweight.  Detailed briefly on this page but I've seen some better explanations out there.  http://lincolncentresource.com/smalldates/1982.html  

I'm not sure I can see well enough in those pictures to determine if they're doubled die obverses but I'm leaning towards no.  Looking for doubling varieties I tend to look at what's known out there and just search for those.  NGC attributes a DDO on the 1982 Large Date Bronze only and it exists on "In God We Trust".  Variety Vista shows one for the 1982-D Large Date Zinc and it exists at the earlobe.  If you only look for known ones it makes searching more efficient and you can churn & burn.  

Mark's opinion certainly outweighs my own when it comes to rare coin purchase consulting but once I saw the certification link I came to the same conclusion.  Learn more about rare coins before jumping in with a sizable investment like this one.  Specifically, how the grading scale works and how to properly read the population reports.  If you just want foreign gold that can be had in much better condition and price points.

As to the coin itself and it's "value", @World Colonialis who I'd ask first since he's as close to an expert on S. African coinage that I know of at this point.  So there I go tagging him in if he's inclined.

Any interest (outside of me) in adding additional Eisenhower dollar "Peg Leg" abraded die variety attributions to the VarietyPlus menu? 

https://www.ikegroup.info/?page_id=214

I was surprised by a silver clad one not dated 1971 recently which piqued my interest.  Looking through sales history and online galleries they're not entirely common (at least in potential, would need closer examination) but they are out there.

OH!  I just noticed you're in Alberta.  Well, scratch that idea of getting boxes of cents to sort through.  Unless of course you order them off of eBay or head across the border to get at face value.  

 Hi @Cresencio and welcome to the forums (belatedly)!  It looks like you're working on a nice set of circulating Lincoln cents there.  The Lincoln cent is definitely one of the more popular series for American collectors.  However, I agree with @Just Bob here and most in a circulated condition wouldn't be worth the cost of certification and you'd end up losing money trying to resale them.  

Lincoln cents are a good gateway into collecting more valuable coins as they're plentiful and full of varieties.  I used to enjoy getting a few boxes from the bank just to sort through on a rainy weekend and I'd highly recommend that for a new collector.  Don't expect to find much additional value but training your eye to see differences in circulation wear is invaluable.  You can pull out anything pre-1982 and bulk those up to sell for the copper content.  Wheat cents usually bring about 3-4c each in bulk as well.  Here's a few resources you may be interested in.

http://www.lincolncentresource.com/Top50.html

http://coinapps.com/copper/penny/calculator/

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/cents/lincoln-cents-memorial-reverse-1959-2008/?page=1

http://www.varietyvista.com/

Happy hunting!

Craw-

Interesting.  I see the airplanes have quite a bit of loss of definition on the 20p version but the steps, building marquee, and (especially) the engraver name appear to be fine.  In hand, how do those details compare?  Possibly re-engraved?