Insider

I just tried to post a new quiz w/5 images. Only allowed to post 2 so that quiz was canceled. I wanted to post something for the weekend.

I have no idea. Oxidized areas can take on millions of shapes

As long as the value of a coin is connected to its grade we will have some sort of gradeflation either by designations (stars) or more numerical options including decimals. The actual condition of a coin graded XF long ago that is now graded MS did not change that much in the period of time that its grade increased.

How about posting some images? One of my favorite threads on the ATS is photo Friday. I cannot wait to look in again tomorrow!

I don't allow ANY DISCUSSION of TPGS experiences in my classes. There would be no time left in the week to teach!

You sure do make me feel dumb. I should think if we can take 20 coins and have them graded within three weeks of each other IN A MATURE STEADY COIN MARKET the results would show there actually are "standards." of a sort. Some would not agree on whatever they turned out to be.

Using a polarizing microscope to examine thin sections of mineral specimens is like playing with a colorful kaleidoscope.

LOL, Some of us will miss you when you are gone.

I understand what you wrote but cannot understand your conclusion that a very successful and stabilizing system (TPG) will fail after decades.

IMO, there is ONLY one way to teach a subject. Start with the basic observable absolutes that cannot be disputed. For example: the highest part of a coin's design or a coin's major focal areas. I don't teach a student to ignore something he/she can see for themselves. That comes later when they subjectively decide what is important to them. The job of a teacher in a coin grading class is to get them to see everything there is to see on a coin; know what it is and what caused it. This is very easy to do in a short period of time for an intelligent person with good eyesight. When a student can pick up a major TPGS slab and guess the grade correctly most of the time or have a valid reason why they disagreed - I'm ecstatic!

Here is the flaw in your opinion of being "passed over." When I buy an MS coin, it meets MY OBSOLETE STANDARD for MS: NO trace of wear! I don't care what the label says. I don't care what the seller thinks. One major dealer (during a slow period of a show) let me go through hundreds of slabbed gold $20 Liberties until I found a few TRUE MS MS-61's, and MS-62's. All were fully MS and I picked out the best coin in each grade. I needed them for class. Just as all MS-65's are not equal; all MS-62's are not true MS! SO WHAT! I'll be the first to tell my students that I'd sell one of those "commercial" MS coins all day long and sleep like a baby. My personal standards are high; but I'd adopt to the "new" standards like the rest of them if I were in the "real world" as a dealer. FACT: We are lucky to have the option of TPGS's and their "REAL WORLD" grading is OK for me.

Changes in the color/texture of the microscopic surface. Friction and luster defects. Surface ALTERATIONS such as tooling and especially repairs. Die polish vs hairlines. Degree of wear that causes design loss. The glare of an incandescent light obliterates the micro characteristics of a surface and "masks" the Id of rub/strike. The key to all of this is the STEREO microscope. I've already posted that a blind man can see a wheel mark or a FRESH contact mark with a light bulb. However, once the contact marks tone down or the coin gets circulated nothing (tooling, scratches, etc) can hide from florescent light and magnification.

Yep. All four. He does not exist in my mind or on my screen!

...when an ignored poster posts in a thread you will see a light grey notice which says: "You've chosen to ignore content by ... Actually, I have not seen this and I'm 100% he has posted plenty today. This feature is WONDERFUL. The only thing that would make it better is if an ignored member could not see any of your posts. Perhaps a "Ghost Setting." A person could post and only selected members could view them. The worst thing you could do to someone is for the mods to put them on "ghost" and no one could see their posts and they would not figure out what was happening for awhile. Think of the fun. A mod could ghost members for an hour or two for the fun of it. Talk about reviving the forums. Folks from all over would be trying to figure out the "glitch."

No I did not. I should have recommended that he leave it alone and sell it. The first step at a conservation service is to decide if a coin can be helped. The second step after that is to see how far you wish to go. Perhaps Mr. Camire could give us a more detailed write-up of the process in this discussion. It would certainly help to revive this forum. They may have it posted already at the NCS site.

Correct. "So rather than responding in kind..." is exactly that.

Peace dollar. Ran out of time to post a new quiz. Sorry.

What if I told you I conserved the coin or I took the black corrosion off at the customers request? If I had owned the coin, I should have sold it with the black streak and let some "genius" such as [SELF EDIT] learn all about end stage corrosion by himself. So rather than your snarky reply which I responded to in kind, you might have asked nicely so I could reply: This is how: When you remove something from the surface of a coin, the underlying surface will either return to its "original" (for all that examine it) condition or be different. The degree of difference can range from a simple discoloration to a rather deep granular crater. The color of the oxidation (toning) HELPS DETERMINE what the underlying surface will look like if it is removed. The color BLACK is very bad. There is only one part of a coin where it can be removed w/o leaving a trace. At first I was going to post a before and after but...Unfortunately, it is bad form to show before and after images of conserved coins on another TPGS forum. I did this once by completely removing a large corrosion spot from an MS-66 buffalo on the PCGS forum. I got a stern warning not to do it again. NGC has a coin conservation service that is one of the best. .

First, just a technicality. "Split grading" was a method of grading used at the time by the pre-1986 TPGS. Both sides of a coin were graded separately. IMO, it should still be in use because I can better imagine and would rather own an MS-61/67 coin than an MS-61/61 (MS-61). Next. IMO, there is nothing wrong with designations. It helps a person imagine what a coin looks like when you cannot see it. Humm, that's what assigning a grade does. Over the years, designations have sprung up in order to rank (price) one coin over another. I believe in the beginning, many of these designations were devised by the groups collecting a specific series. As they caught on, the grading services kept them. Long ago when I was doing research on Franklin's I learned that the Franklin specialists insisted that in order to be a true FBL coin the two wisps of hair by Franklin's temple ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN needed to be split! Count you blessings.

Ok, I'll wait for you to explain the progression of oxidation on a silver coin FOR ALL OF THE MEMBERS in this discussion. Otherwise, please stop posting nonsense about things you know nothing about. Thanks in advance. I agree! Here are some others in the same submission today. They are not caused by rubber bands!

LOL, I have no intention of "ignoring" you. Every so often you make a good addition to a discussion. I've probably "Liked" some of your posts. Unfortunately, your comment here is misinformation, Actually what got me banned was my reference to a firing squad. I posted that I would take my time carrying out an execution by shooting off a finger or putting the first bullet into a foot. I believe the discussion evolved into that while I was trying to educate the ignorant members posting about the Chinese virus. When folks listen to the fake news about most things these days, no one can blame them for not knowing what was going on in the "real world." Posting many dozens of examples is against the rules. One reason our country was shut down was because some esteemed insufficiently_thoughtful_person in Britain calculated that many millions would die in the US. A week later he lowered his prediction. A week or so later he did that again. We cannot discuss certain subjects because all of us don't know EVERYTHING so we can have a balanced discussion. We only believe what we are told by the sources we use. Perfect Example: Florescent light for coin examination. I have an open mind about everything and my opinion on many subjects has been changed by posters giving me FACTS I was not aware of that I was able to prove to myself they were true! I enjoy being educated and I have been "spanked" a few times on these boards for being ignorant! It is very embarrassing.

No.

Do you actually talk this way?

New quiz coming today.

See what? I'll guarantee my "ignore" is working because that person has probably posted at lease three times in this discussion already.