GoldFinger1969

And all these dies were made out of......steel ? Special steel ? Don't they use harder alloys today ?

They are celebrating the grading, just like NGC did the Langbord Ten, but that doesn't mean they PAID for the priviledge.

Possible, but NGC graded the Langbord 10 and Sotheby's/Stacks-Bowers probably told Weitzman that if he wanted to maximize the return for his foundation, he needed to get it graded/certified. Remember, he is NOT a coin collector and didn't even have possesion of the coin -- he donated it to public viewing spaces. He's not into the whole grading & labeling thing.

I dunno....off the top of my head, this former economist is going to say that the price level is about 6x what it was in 1971. So that $2 cost in today's $$$ is probably $12-$15. Some increase, but not as much. Incomes have gone up, too.

Brilliantly said, Mike.....I agree with the points you made on the grade and the TV look.

What are we talking about for these coins in the pop census: what's the TOTAL number of coins available and what is available in MINT STATE (MS60 and up) and also GEM MS (65 and up) ? I know for some of the ultra-rare Saints....we're talking under 200 totally available and maybe 1-2 dozen (or less) in all Mint States and maybe 10 at Gem or higher. For commons or semi-commons, we're talking thousands or tens of thousands in total (or higher).....and easily a few hundred in all MS conditions. So that is enough to satisfy maybe 500 hard-core Saint/registry collectors and a larger base of maybe 25,000 who collect via type or partial Saint collections. By that I mean probably half the series of 53 coins can be collected at a premium under 100-300% of the underlying bullion price of gold. Only a few coins are 5-figures or more even if you go down into the low-AU's (or below). Forget the investor class (HSN, QVC, Rick's Coin infomercials) who go after the 1924's and other generics, etc. -- that's hundreds of thousands perhaps. How many collectors do you guys think we are talking about for these "moderns' ? Thousands....tens of thousands ? More ?

Between The Wars (and how to read this book ! ) : The SAINTS book has a couple of very interesting chapters in-between the chapters on the 1916-S and the 1920 Saints, which I am re-hitting this weekend. No Saint-Gaudens coins were produced from 1917-19, as World War I raged. Chapters of interest here include: Post War: The Roaring Twenties 1920-29 Cracks and Collapsing Dies, Double Eagles - 1920's (fascinating) Gold Coin Production - 1920's I found these chapters and some of the stories and facts contained superlative. And some of the themes of these chapters are re-hit within the Commentary and other sections later on during the yearly and mintmark reviews. There are more chapters like those above on various topics interspersed between reviews of Saint-Gaudens coins. Re-reading these chapters, I realized something: I may have rushed my inital read-through of this book, and for those of you who haven't yet read it or might be planning on reading it, my comments here might be useful. Basically, I think I was too focused on "getting through" the 640-plus pages of the book instead of absorbing and highlighting key sections of interst to me. I think I should have wrote down key sentences, and paragraphs of interest along with their associated facts....this would have made more of each chapter "stand out" once I finished the book. For instance....I am interested in hoards, and I recently went over every single year and mintmark in the book and highlighted the hoard impact and finds for that particular Saint. I wrote them all down into Word and now have a PDF of the hoards on my smarpthone (similar to the Heritage descriptions for high-end Saints along with Akers comments). Had I wrote down the hoard information -- among other interesting facts -- during my initial read-through, I think I would have benefitted at the time and probably wouldn't have needed to re-read the sections to converse in this thread on that particular topic. This book is SO INFORMATIVE and so full of detailed information -- can't say enough about Roger's research and writing skills (plus his colleagues ) -- that you can't possibly absorb it all by a simple read-through as you count down the pages until 640 or so. At least I can't. So since using a yellow highlighter on the book isn't recommended, writing down stuff YOU find interesting would probably let stuff sink in later as you read your own notes and highlights. Come to think of it....I suspect that many of my inquiries to Roger and others in this thread were probably stuff I read and simply forgot later on, despite my interest and ability to absorb it at the time I was reading it (like the hoard stuff). While the adventures of Scobey and Comparette stood out in my mind, little tidbits like Britain not striking any sovereigns after 1925 did not, along with the U.S. dominance of the gold coin trade in the 1920's. That kind of stuff. Anyway, just thought I would pass this along to anybody looking to get the most ouf of this book. Everybody is different and what works for me may not work for you. YMMV, as they say.

If we all agreed with one another 100% of the time here....this place would be pretty boring and uneducational. I could spend my time talking to a mirror !!

Weitzman Auction....It will be interesting to see if the auction of the Weitzman Triple -- the 1933 Saint, the Inverted Jenny, and the British Guina Magenta stamp -- gets alot of online and social media buzz. If it does, it could lead to some directed interest to our little niche hobby. The fact that all three are being auctioned together on the same day is a plus for publicity and news coverage. Social media didn't exist the last time the 1933 Saint was sold (2002). Keep an eye on the buzz leading up to the June auction. In fact, maybe all those gazillionaires spending big $$$ on NFTs and BitCoin might actually want to buy something that they can HOLD in their hands and is actually REAL STUFF and not digital. So there could be spillover from there, too. You only need 1 social media king or queen to mention something on Twitter or Instagram or whatever and then you have thousands interested. Laugh at her, but look at all the folks taking cosmetic advice from Kim Kardashian. And now she's a billionaire !!

CK, depending on how you define "collector" the variation in demand can be HUGE. If someone has 1 or 2 mint or proof sets and goes years or decades without even LOOKING at another coin purchase, I wouldn't call them a collector anymore than I am an art collector because I bought a few pieces decades ago. We want people who are actively buying....spending $$$ yearly......bidding online....attending coin shows....visiting their LCS from time-to-time. Ultimately, you, I, and WC can each have different collecting interests and it doesn't matter. The hobby is big enough to accomodate ALL of us. And I believe the ease of buying/selling online and the information that is available is a HUGE plus going forward. Enough to counter high prices in certain areas and demographic headwinds ? We shall see.....

Could be...I wasn't following it in the 1980's (HS, college, job ). But that rise even from the 1980 bubble peak is incredible up to 1989.

Thanks WC. I still think that overall the coin industry CAN get new followers into this hobby. Especially because folks who want gold/silver naturally segue into coins (well, at least I did !! ). BitCoin and demographics remain a problem, I admit. There is something to be said for being able to buy your perfect coin....or something you like.....by clicking on a mouse a few times...never having to leave your living room....using a smartphone even.......instead of running all over to various LCS's......spending hundreds attending a far-away coin show....or calling a dozen dealers or looking at ads. That's how it was all done for decades.

You're saying it's a fake that has been "worn down" to look circulated ?

Arranged, and basically the owner was told by CAC/Albanese that it could not grade CAC at MS66 but 65+ it would. I believe I read it in CoinWeek, if you want I'll look for the article. It was probably a review/comparision of all the 1927-D's.

I find the back-and-forth debate informative, if a bit confusing at times to follow since I'm not well-versed in some of the coins you guys are referencing. But thanks guys ! For those who joined late or those like me who need to stay-on-point....we're mostly talking post-1964 coins here, right (when silver got taken out) ? Not the stuff from 1900-1950 or so (SLQs, Franklins, Barbers, and other small face value coinage), right ?

You guys can see the decent pics above (granted, not as good as having it in-hand).....do you agree with the MS65 grade or not ? BTW, you can click on the pics 2 or 3 times to zoom-in (and now the Zoom-in feature doesn't work ).

Just a reminder (you may already know this)...but there are specialized World/Foreign websites that have a good reputation.....also, I use HA and GC as much higher-end than Ebay.

If the Langbord 10 and other 1933's (?) ever get pardoned, then the buyer of the Farouk-Weitzman coin at least knows where they stand in the grading game. A colleague whose grading knowledge I respect says that the 2 deep gouges on Liberty's left leg are a problem....they do stand out. He wonders if it should grade an MS63. I'm torn....anybody got any thoughts ?

FYI...the Langbord 10 coins are slabbed (but not certified/graded) in NGC holders. Or at least they were.

Mark, have you ever heard of high-end (or even lower-priced) coin owner having a coin resubmitted for a LOWER grade just so they could get a CAC sticker on it like an owner of a 1927-D Saint once did ?

Historical knowledge for the TPGs. I'm sure Weitzman was told it'd bring more $$$ if graded.

Yup, adds to the storyline with the coin, good point Lem.

Low-ball collectors are.......?

For this special a coin, I guess they come out and grade it or whatever. If I had a coin from my grandfather and sent it to PCGS or NGC (?) and asked them to grade it but send it back without a slab in the velvet pouch I sent it in, I'm not sure they do that for me. For 7-figure coins, I guess they make an exception. This coin is so special -- and I suspect any coin that was graded but not slabbed would also qualify -- that any seller and buyer are aware of the coin's attributes and don't need any label to arrive at a future transaction.

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/pcgs-certifies-ultra-rare-1933-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-gold-coin/ Coin will NOT be slabbed....buyer at June auction can have it secured in a holder if they wish. Only 1 other coin has been allowed to be granted non-holder certification, the PR63 Walton Liberty Nickel.