GoldFinger1969

Since "proofs" back then didn't have the dark mirror-like black fields we see today on gold coins.....and since the Proofs a few years later were disliked by the coin community (and didn't look like "proofs," either, according to the critics)....can we say that maybe the 3 strikes, metal press, annealing, fast replacement of dies.....all created that "proof-like" appearance on the High Reliefs that were freshly struck with new dies among other factors ? What was done differently with the UHRs such that they are correctly called proofs -- but not the HRs ?

It's interesting then -- and commendable -- that you gave Equal Time to the "pro-proofs" and "anti-proofs" sides in your book, Roger. I also liked how you treated it -- you let each advocate speak for themselves rather than you doing it for them. Was this your approach or Heritage's, since you seem to feel that the case for Proofs is weak ? How would you feel about calling those "proof" High Reliefs "proof-like" instead ?

Wait, I thought that was Susan's birth control method ?

Gmarg, how much would the coins be worth if legitimate ? What range are we talking about ?

I stand corrected, thanks Mark. Spot-on !!

Hey NGC....congratulations on this press release, it was a great coin and a great price. https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/8577/double-eagle-realizes-660000-at-heritage-september-2020-sale/ For some reason, however, the coin doesn't show up in the Heritage Archives database. It's 7 months after the sale, usually it takes a day or two to be listed (if not instantly). The sale is $100,000 more than the next-highest priced PR69: https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231+51+403&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Nty=1&Ntt=%2420+MCMVII+wire+rim+&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-071316 DLange, maybe you can reach out to HA ?

I didn't know NGC/PCGS did that -- reslab an entire proof set. It looks nice ! I have some in those old plastic wraps, maybe I should look into getting them into one of these multi-coin set holders.

Zad, it's just nice to see special coins like the UHRs circulate every 10-15 years or so.....the earlier UHR sold in February was off the market for almost 50 years ! Thankfully, there's more than a few of the UHRs so one usually comes on the market ever few years or so. But the UHR listings in RWB's SG DE book include some coins that they aren't even sure are existing coins or duplicates submitted over the decades. One is ungraded and the other is a PF58. I get where are you are coming from, but imagine the 1933 Saint being sold in 2 months not being sold again for 50 years because some young whippersnapper buys it who's in his early-30's. Lots of publicity for the coin itself and the hobby will be generated when the 1933 Saint gets sold at Sotheby's. Now imagine the coin doesn't get sold again until 2067....46 years......uggh.

There is no merger between them, either corporate-wise or business practice-wise. It's all in your mind, JJJ.

I wonder if the higher prices paid for these UHRs are a function of the non-collector interest in them plus the fact that so many of the coins have been off the market for decades. Many have been unable to be traced. Years ago, coin collecting was mostly middle-aged to older people with $$$....they'd buy a coin and then once they tired of it, they'd sell it or let it re-circulate into new collections. Today, with these buyers of NFS and other social media and digital billionaires.....they have the $$$ to buy these coins in their 20's and 30's. If they do buy it, unless they want to sell it or get tired of it....it could be with them for 50-60 years or more ! Not sure other key date-like coins in other coin types generate the same interest, but if they are rare and famous, the same problem can happen if the buyer is very young or just lives to a very old age and they don't want to sell it. But I don't think that's a concern with the special unique rarities among Franklins, Pennies, Nickels, etc.

I wonder if it wasn't a troll because he claims experience (he does it for a living) and yet can offer no reasoned points that would back up his assertions. He just goes off on a rant with total falsehoods and non-sequiters. Anyway, I look forward to the NGC and PCGS merger and the joining of our two message forums. Will be the greatest combination since Homer Simpson noted the addition of chocolate to milk.

Is Dale a grader ? The TPGs might make a mistake. He should re-submit with evidence as to why they are wrong, if he's such an expert. For now, my money is on NGC.

Rambling nonsense....PCGS and NGC haven't and aren't merging. You refuse to accept that the coins are counterfeit. Either you bought them from someone who didn't realize they were fakes....or conned you...or you inherited the coins. Regardless, don't blame PCGS or NGC. You say the coins are legit ? Then sell them to a collector of that type and get top dollar. Good Luck !

Well, he said he has been doing this for 40 years and is an expert on the coins: "I started coin collecting 40 years ago. I've turned my father's hobby into a profession. My background is high enough to determine that and the statement that I made." Maybe he's an expert on other coins, but if he focused on these coins, he would have realized long ago there was a problem.

I'll look again more closely, thanks for the tips. It's another reason why unless you really are good at the coins you collect, buy the graded/certified coins, especially when Big $$$ are involved.

I don't but I'm totally unfamiliar with these coins and didn't want to spend too much time trying to match up Roger's info with the 2 pics. But focusing on weight is always a problem because that's the easiest thing to copy.

Are you doing this to enjoy coin collecting as a hobby...or are you doing this to make money ?

I hope the price rises (slowly) but I don't see it right now. Maybe in a few years when solar and other industrial uses hit. Copper with EVs seems a better play. https://www.silverinstitute.org/silver-supply-demand/ Billions of people have no need for silver, they just want running water and food.

Interesting, according to Roger's Book/Heritage.... the coin owned by the Saint-Gaudens family had the Inverted Lettering, which some believe Charles Barber preferred but ASG did not (apparently he preferred Normal Edge lettering). The coin last sold for $2,115,000 in 2015 after being off the market for almost 45 years. Also interesting was that the UHRs must have had many people besides the coin collectors awaiting them because the price shot way above the $20 face value. The Metropolitan Museum of Art exhibited one in 1908 and they had it insured for $1,000 at the time. Regular High Reliefs traded up only to $35 or so after their release. Of course, there were thousands of HR's but only 20 or so UHRs.

WC...whenever one pays a big premium, you're speculating on a huge move up to bail you out. Same with closed-end investment funds.

Check out RWB's pics above. If you are an expert like you claim, the discrepancies should jump out at you.

It's almost like they are EXPECTING silver to rise shortly and just looking to jump-start the price.

Wow, so you have to pay about $32-$33 for an ASE. Normally, with silver at about $26, you'd pay what ? $28 ?

Mike, what about ASEs ?

How much do you figure the coins are worth, JoeJingoJack ?