GoldFinger1969

Follow-up for Mike......I believe that CAC isn't grading it more favorably because 65+ is just enough below 66 that it gets the CAC sticker....CAC ignores + marks.....so it just sees the 65 vs. 66 and decided it was now solid for the grade at 65 whereas it wasn't for 66. I'm not an expert on CAC but I believe that's how they treat it.

20 francs is 1/2 ounce coin ?

There are klunkers out there by the TPGs, less so (IMO) CAC. But they are out there, in these forums as well as ATS. Check out the classic "Franklin Gradeflation" thread over at CU...just really need to read the first 2 pages. Fascinating........

Is that "Maximum Value" per coin or to each group of coins you submit in total ?

It might be a good sign that NGC is raising prices, just like the private equity investment in CU/PCGS. It means that demand for grading services is increasing. I know that those of you who actively submit are not happy, but it's a potential inflection point that we might look back on in a few years and say "Hey, in retrospect, it was a bullish sign for gold and/or coin prices." Time will tell...........

FUN is fun. Like I said, a bunch of us hope to connect like a few of us did last year. If you stay in the hotel where evereybody else is staying it's great for short drinks or lounge get-togethers on the go. I didn't do them but I hear the workshops are very useful. I loved the Heritage Auctions, at the last January FUN 2020 they auctioned off a 1927-D Saint.

I stayed at the Rosen Inn at Point Orlando which was 3/4 mile from the OCCC....but it had a kick-asss Thai restaurant right across the street !

That's why the January one is so popular.....Florida in January from other states is very attractive.

To hell with the Rosen Centre, give me your address, I'll take the bedroom on the right-side. If you have a house that's the best of both worlds. Nearby and save $$$.....sweet !!

Matt, can you tell us something about the normal turnaround times now....vs. last year at this time after Covid hit....and 18 months ago BEFORE Covid hit ?

Why not send it to the 2 utes instead ?

I definitely plan on attending the January FUN 2022, might get down to Summer FUN for 1 day. I'll get back to you. FUN 2020 was my 1st big coin show and 1st FUN show....had a blast. You probably want to consider getting a hotel as close to the convention center as possible.

And then send both to CAC !!!

Morph, I honestly haven't followed it that closely. But I do have some research reports from Wall Street firms that I haven't read yet that I can post here if there's interest on the whole battery thing.

Longer-term, with EV's replacing conventional autos, a major source of demand starts to disappear for platinum and palladium.

Yup....but at least the initial TPG certification was an independent appraisal rather than dealers and collectors each with vested interests. Some people don't like that CAC is sort of a 2nd TPG....grading the grader, in effect. But as someone posted on another forum.....if you dislike or complain about grade inflation, you can't argue against CAC.

Romon, one of the key questions I would ask you is this: how much do you intend to spend on coins in the next year or so ? Let's just say for arguments sake that the number is $2,000 -- that's your limit. If that's the case, then I think that spending $1,200 or so right off the top in a bit of a "rush feel" to it screems to proceed with caution. Do more research -- due dilligence, as we say in the trade -- and be patient. OTOH, if you told us you were going to spend $15,000 in coins in the next year (or were generally OK with that amount), then I would say that while you still might benefit from waiting and doing a bit more DD on the particular coin and the coin type, it's not going to be a fatal mistake to your budget if you buy the coin in question. No 2 coins are alike....and no 2 coin collectors needs, wants, pitfalls, and strategies should be alike, either.

You just check recent auction prices....you ask here or in other Coin Forums.....reach out to friends and associates....and ask yourself this question: "If the coin loses 50% of its value, will I still enjoy the coin and/or will it cause me any financial stress or anxiety ?" If losing 50% of your money in a few months or years will cause you agita, then don't buy it. If you won't be thrilled but it won't change your lifestyle, then its just a question of if you really LIKE or LOVE the coin, price appreciation/depreciation be damned. Absolutely !! If the coin won't change your lifestyle after paying for it, and ditto for subsequent price depreciation (if that happens)....then mazel tov and enjoy the coin. I am a Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle afficionado and these coins can cost $1,800 (for generic commons) or tens of thousands for numismatic rarities. If I am going to spend thousands of dollars on a coin -- bullion or numismatic or both -- I want to make sure I give myself the best opportunity to avoid overpaying (and losing $$$).... but more importantly....make sure it is a coin I will want to own for YEARS. Speaking of which.....I researched a 1923-D Saint for YEARS because for me a $3,000 investment was pretty significant. Would it break me if the price got sliced in half because a secret hoard materialized or the price of gold fell by 50% ? No, but at a minimum assuming those events didn't happen I wanted to make sure I got a nice-looking coin solid for the grade...and solid for the $$$. I finally pulled the trigger at FUN 2020 (I didn't want to buy one online, wanted to save it for my 1st big coin show) and hope to hold the coin the rest of my life. Of course, it also depends on your particular financial circumstances. If you've done very well financially, then a $2,000 coin that is purely numismatic (as opposed to a gold bullion coin) might be small potatos. OTOH, we have working-class folks here for whom a $200 coin is a luxury that takes a few months of savings and they don't want to be 50% underwater 3 months after they buy their coin.

That's interesting, since they were partners for a time. Was Ruddy a numismatist or maybe he handled the financials and wasn't as experienced as Bowers at grading.

I don't know how advanced you are about Franklin's and FBL designations, but there's also a famous/infamous thread ATS talking about Franklin Gradeflation. Of course, if the air is all out of that sector (prices were falling for years, I believe) then maybe the downside is limited at this point. I have no opinion as I don't follow the coins.

If you are totally starting out....do you really need to buy a 4-figure coin as your 1st major purchase ? I would do more research on Franklins specifically before buying....it's one thing to buy a very well-known coin like a Morgan or Saint where you have bullion value underpinning the price and a very liquid market. Franklins are more of a specific niche and the FBL thing is very debatable and tenuous if someone disagrees with the TPG rating.

That's an Indian Head, right ? I have Indian Head 1855's going for $275 in EF and $425 in UNC in my 1970 Red Book.

I never heard of "RNG" but I bet an NGC PF69 will still be more valuable than a 70 from RNG. Good Luck maintaining the 70 !

That too, Alex, but I was thinking more of some of the veterans here who feel their very nice top-notch collections are being dissed professionally and financially ($$$) because they don't have or want to go out and get CAC stickers.

It's definintely irksome to some collectors here, too.