GoldFinger1969

On 5/28/2009 at 9:55 AM, Oldtrader3 said:

There seemed to be a collector perception also that the Wells Fargo Hoard coins were graded rather liberally. I have looked at quite a few MS65/MS64, Wells Fargo coins, passed on them and thought that they were overgraded. This overgrading has been the issue with several other hoards as well.

Agreed....I don't think it was because of the coins or the nature of the hoard....standards were just starting to liberalize after the opening decade of TPGs.

On 5/28/2009 at 9:43 AM, BillJones said:

Having looked at the photos, I'd have to say that I might have a hard time giving that coin an MS-69. I can spot at least three small marks on the obverse that would be visible, at least to me, with the naked eye. To me an MS-69 should have no more than couple of barely perceptable marks. So I guess I would have called an MS-68, but what do I know?

I've heard that from others.  But when you get into the top of the Wells Fargo coins, the MCMVII UHRs, or the best of the MCMVII HRs.... you seem to have a fluid grading system where the ability of a buyer to pay more for a higher-graded coin appears to have influenced the grading even if subconsciously.

Thankfully, PCGS did NOT give out a 70 grade even though they admit they tried to justify one. 

On 11/16/2022 at 12:12 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Im with Goldfinger. It needs to at least be mentioned. How to battle counterfeiting. 

I could care less about Dan Carr; from what I know of him he's transparent about what he is doing and what he sells.  There is no intent to deceive as I understand it.

I'm talking about all these Ebay counterfeits and the overseas (Chinese) fakes.

Folks producing fake coins and fake slabs in quantity are the main problem, not somebody mischaracterizing a single coin on Craigslist or Ebay.

On 11/16/2022 at 11:53 AM, EagleRJO said:

I don't really see it either, but I am really a raw coin collector where if you take the coin out of the holder you typically aren't left with anything special. But there are plenty of collectors that see value in those special label designations ... supply and demand.

It's part of the story that is attractive to some people...and that is enough to justify a higher price to those individuals.  But you are right, some of the "hoards" are self-created or exaggerated and not worth anything IMO.

Ironically, the Saints 1908 Wells Fargo No Motto Hoard is really misnamed because "Wells Fargo" dealt with where they were stored when they were bought by Ron Gillio and his partners.  The name on them should really deal with the circa 1917 international transaction which resulted in them remaining untouched for decades.

I'd like to see the ANA do more to fight counterfeiting with state and federal authorities....and working with online sellers.....etc.

Sting operations along with heavy fines/jail time seem to be the solutuion for domestics, not sure about foreign/Chinese.

On 11/15/2022 at 9:15 PM, VKurtB said:

I think you have flipped the niche and the greater community. THIS, right HERE, on your screen, THIS is the tiny niche. 

Yes, we're the collectors who like to talk and learn about what we have and others have.

Others simply collect...store their goodies....and get on with their lives. 

On 11/15/2022 at 8:04 PM, zadok said:

...thats not what im seeing at the bigger shows...baltimore, ana, central states....

I'll report back when I goto some local shows next few weeks.  FUN 2020 was definitely skewing older, last big show I attended.

On 11/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, Jack Corso said:

Here is a list of hoards that I have currently:

Las Vegas Vault Collection, Mapes Casino Hoard, Great Southern Treasury Hoard, GSA Hoard, Continental Bank Hoard, Music City Hoard, Great Montana Hoard, Olothe Hoard, NYC Bank Hoard, Binion Collection, Lincoln Highway Hoard, Redfield Hoard, Fitzgerald Hoard, Patriot Collection, Jules Reiver Collection, Great NW Collection, Wayne Miller Collection. A couple may not be considered Hoards but I like the extra info that is on the coins.

Impressive collection, congrats ! 

On 11/15/2022 at 8:04 PM, zadok said:

...thats not what im seeing at the bigger shows...baltimore, ana, central states....

You think the number of dealers is UP from pre-Covid or 10 or 15 years ago ?

On 11/15/2022 at 8:06 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

Or... not ironic that a non-collector couldn't care less about the interests of collectors? The ANA is an outdated, useless, and pointless organization that exists only because of tradition. They've been around, and so they're still around. I don't know what they do, or why they exist, except to apparently feed VKB's ego. 

In their defense, they serve a niche that is part of our greater community.  Sort of like how baseball Fantasy players are part of the fandom of baseball....but fans like myself detest fantasy baseball.

On 11/15/2022 at 7:31 PM, VKurtB said:

Guess what marked the “high water mark” of ANA membership. Not a date, but rather an activity or circumstance. 

I'm probably wrong but I would guess around 1990 and the Coin Bubble of 1989-90 ?

On 11/15/2022 at 7:18 PM, Jack Corso said:

Thanks for the info. I have nearly completed an entire set of hoard Morgans and Peace dollars. There's a few out the for sale but they don't look like true hoards that I'm interested in. 

You have multiple hoards for both Morgans and Peace Dollars ?  I'd be interested in knowing which ones, besides the obvious GSA 1970's release.  A few recent Morgan hoards got their own labels.

I track hoards for Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles.  

On 11/15/2022 at 5:16 PM, RWB said:

My basic question is: "When will ANA get a backbone and take aggressive action to support and protect collectors?"

What do you want done ?  What is the problem as you see it ?

On 11/15/2022 at 4:12 PM, VKurtB said:

Membership is growing. But the number of dealers? That is likely more problematic. Shows are doing well. The average shopper is spending quite a bit more. The number of unique dealers MAY BE DOWN. Reason? Overhead. I’ll ask, for sure. Less than 2 hours to go. 

I would think that if the number of dealers is down it is because of demographics....most dealers skew OLDER and started their businesses in the 1970's or 1980's.

On 10/13/2022 at 7:31 PM, J P M said:

No bargains here I agree Bill. Like I said I bought some graded coins from him and a few ungraded nickels . I was always able to get a good deal below 1/2 price .  I am not sure if the wife will give the same deals. But I still like the fact that she is at least bringing in some of the inventory to look at. I am sure she will sell some of it for the full price or close to it. I wish her luck. 

I'm surprised....unless she is well-off and doesn't need the $$$, I would think she'd be looking to get rid of the coins ASAP....unless she wants to keep working in the store because it keeps her occupied.  Guess it would depend on her age.

On 10/18/2022 at 10:33 PM, Wesbishop said:

How do I know if a coin is worth being graded?

Are you a collector or did somebody just give you a few random Morgan Dollars and you want to know if they are worth much more than $25 each ?

On 7/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, Joyce C Novitzke said:

I am a rather new collector of GSA Hoard coins with only two years of experience to date. 

How active are you in collecting GSA Morgans ?  Are you active online -- HA, Ebay, GC -- or do you go to shows or look in obscure places like Etsy and Craigslist ?

Curious if they have any thoughts on the state of the hobby....are new coin dealerships being formed...are existing ones reporting business is way up....are coin shows (local/regional/national) still seeing a post-pandemic surge.....etc.

On 11/15/2022 at 2:32 PM, RWB said:

Finally settled on a title "More Mine to Mint" -- not very creative but fits with the first book title. Haven't picked a cover illustration.

If you want something that will grab people....raw gold nuggets juxtaposed with a brilliant gold proof coin definitely hits the "mine" and "mint" parts of the title.

Good luck with the book, Roger.  I'm curious how much work it will take to revise it compared to the original.

How about "From Mine To Mint 2:  The Search For More Money" 

Spaceballs.....

On 11/15/2022 at 2:42 PM, RWB said:

Polished fields and frosted devices go back to the earliest US master coins. Copied from Soho Mint tokens. It's nothing new or innovative.

Didn't you state in a back-and-forth on Saint proofs that the mirror-like proofs most of us who started collecting in the 1960's or 1970's associate with a "proof coin"....didn't commence until the 1930's ?

Maybe it was somebody else.

From Wikipedia:  "Part of the bank's required reserves were held in silver dollars, which provided the opportunity to profit from a rise in silver prices. The holdings, estimated to be 1.5 million silver dollars, was sold to a coin dealer to raise money in the early 1980s."

Thanks Jack...nice pics. 

Conder's question remains....if CI went under in 1984....then I presume that some of the assets including bags of coins took a few years to reach NGC when they commenced operations (in 1987). 

The label from above, as per Conder's classic NGC slab thread here at NGC (where else ! ) shows that this coin was holdered in or after July 2003.  So almost 20 years after CI went under and many years after they would have been sold.

Interested in how they determined chain-of-custody for the bags to make certain they were part of the CI Hoard.

Maybe down the line DLange or another NGC person here can chime in.

On 11/15/2022 at 1:04 AM, Sandon said:

   NGC graded this coin "VF Details, Cleaned", as I had expected.

How can you tell it was cleaned/polished ?