Zebo

On 11/4/2023 at 2:23 PM, VKurtB said:

Yup, I’ll be there Friday on my way back to Alabama from Harrisburg, PA. 

Ended up missing the show. How was it?

Some say Mahogany, if I remember correctly, but I still would question it.

I wonder if wood that is almost 450 years old still could cause problems for coins. Not my area of expertise by any means and something I would not normally think about. Interesting question, however.

On 11/10/2023 at 2:50 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If the original wasn't in high relief, not sure the recreation should be.  JMHO.

I purchased the 2009 Ultra High Relief Saint....but it's 27 MM not 34 MM (Saint diameter), which was one of the original intended sizes when Saint-Gaudens was creating mock models.  But because this coin was 99.99% gold and not 90% gold, the total size at all diameters was SMALLER so if they made it 34 mm it would have been really thin.

I wonder if they should have done a 90/10 alloy to allow for a larger size than what was sold and to match the original dimensions matching an MCMVII UHR.

Larger would have been better sticking to the original.

On 11/8/2023 at 9:59 AM, rrantique said:

The US mint let down again

 

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/news-bulletin-mint-withdraws-1794-dollar-designs-from-american-liberty-program

Maybe not in the Liberty program, but…

The first American silver dollar—the 1794 Flowing Hair dollar—was going to be the inspiration for the design of the next silver medal and high-relief gold coin, according to an October 24 U.S. Mint announcement. 

The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC) had been scheduled to review the design on October 24-25, but the group declined to do that, saying the designs were not modern depictions of Liberty. 

Then, on November 1, the mint announced that it had decided against using the Flowing Hair design for the next American Liberty issues. However, it plans to release them as a separate program celebrating the coin’s 230^th anniversary in 2024. It appears that these plans still include a silver medal and gold coin—both of which can be issued without congressional authority. 
 

On 11/10/2023 at 2:00 PM, Henri Charriere said:

[FWIW:  Pique/piqued... You piqued my interest!]   

That’s Southern Ebonics. 

On 11/7/2023 at 5:49 PM, Cozdred said:

Hi Boo60,

   I don't get on Chat very often, so as usual I'm late for this topic.  But, I do have valuable information to offer, so I will add it late now!  

Although I've only been collecting gold sovs for 2 years, I decided early on to specialize in the DISH varieties of the Jubilee Head series.  I've corresponded with Steve Hill several times, and he was even nice enough to send me a signed copy of the 2017 Iverson collection booklet which he helped put together.  Early on, Iverson and Hill decided to assume that 6 different obverse dies existed for the hooked J version minted in London sovs 1887.  I believe this came about based on their research into the Melbourne and Sydney varieties.  Originally only L1 and L2 were identified, however by the time the 2017 booklet was published L3 and L4 had been discovered.  Just this past summer, I am fairly certain that I have discovered L5 and L6, and I've had some discussions with Steve about L5 without yet reaching agreement.  Since when I started I did not have the 2017 booklet, I was curious to know what L3 and L4 look like, and Steve was kind enough to send me his personal copies of those images.  Now, when I compare the printed image of L4 (2017) with the image he sent, I'm convinced that these are two separate dies.  Currently I think of them as L4a and L4b, however if my analysis proves to be correct I would expect L4b to eventually be called DISH-L7.  Just speculation at this time.  As of today, I've seen a few examples of L4b and would classify it as R5 rarity, however I've never seen any other example of L4a, and would therefore classify it as R7.  

Anyway, looking at the image you posted, I would say you have a very good match to the more common L4b,  If you compare it to the L4a image in the 2017 booklet, I think you will note significant differences, as I have.

Now for the bad news...  I've submitted quite a few examples of DISH coins to NGC in order to get the correct Marsh and DISH numbers added to the label.  I added the info in the Variety Plus section of the submission form as, for example, "Marsh 125B - DISH L3".  You have to request a grading tier for this, since the grader has to examine the coin and verify the variety.  So my understanding is that you cannot just ask for reholder.  Since all varieties are different, you can submit this with other world gold coins if you like.  I usually submit 5 or 6 DISH varieties on the same sheet, each with different numbers.  What I've found is that NGC currently does NOT recognize DISH varieties at all, and also do not recognize Marsh numbers for the Jubilee Head series.  They completely ignore DISH numbers, however they will add Marsh numbers to the holder, but NOT as part of the coin description. Instead, they put the Marsh number at the bottom as part of the Pedigree of the coin.  This is extremely disappointing.  PCGS does recognize Marsh numbers as part of the coin description, which puts them ahead currently IMO.  But at least having the correct Marsh number somewhere on the coin holder is helpful, so currently I settle for that. 

Many months ago I submitted a request to have a new category of Jubilee Head gold sovs by Marsh variety, and this was rejected.  Was told to enter it as a Custom Set.  NGC is desperately trying to avoid recognizing DISH varieties since this will cause major headaches with their database management.  Again PCGS is ahead of them since they do have competitive categories for Marsh Jubilee varieties.  

Another interesting quirk of both NGC and PCGS is that they will NOT guarantee accuracy for varieties. PCGS is notoriously poor when assigning gold sov varieties -- among other collectors I know they are considered a joke. So I'm not sure that NGC even checks them very carefully.  If you were to send in a coin with a hooked J and ask the grader to determine the variety, I'm not sure they would do that.  I can't say for certain, since I always send in the desired Marsh number with the submission.  The reason I think that they don't really pay much attention to the variety is because one time I had to "guess" the variety of a coin for which I didn't have a high res image.  On the submission form I entered "Marsh 125 - DISH L1" and asked for high res PhotoVision image.  When I saw the image it was clear I'd made a mistake, and the coin was actually Marsh 125C - DISH L4.  However, even with the PhotoVision image in hand, the grader still returned the coin with Marsh 125 on the pedigree part of the label.  They just put down what was on the submission sheet, probably without checking.  Why bother, since they don't guarantee accuracy anyway?

Hope this info helps!  If you've already sent the coin in, with DISH L4 requested, I would expect that was ignored based on my experience.  If you requested Marsh 125C, I would expect that got returned on the label as pedigree. And if you just asked the grader to determine the variety for you, I expect that was denied.  So please post what occurred so I can see if I have guessed correctly!  

By the way, I'm rather stunned that your coin was graded MS61.  Based on the wear patterns on both sides, along with the significant amount of dirt built up in the denticles, it's very obvious that this coin saw a good deal of actual circulation.  Coins sitting in mint bags or bank vaults don't get dirty!  I would grade the coin AU55, maybe AU58 if I was in a good mood  So you're lucky you didn't get me as the grader that day!

 

Good information. Too bad about the dish registry request. That would open further discussion. Without seeing the images you speak of, what do you believe the difference is in what you call L4a and L4b?  You peak my interest!

On 11/6/2023 at 5:00 PM, VKurtB said:

If Steve really thought that, and I'm not disputing he did; he also had to be believing in magic fairy dust. He obviously either believed it would happen due to his own natural attractiveness, or he thought Gary would pull a rabbit out of his butt.

I talked to a dozen international dealers who didn’t show the remote inkling they wanted or even thought about attending. These are the ones that routinely travel to New York and California.

On 11/6/2023 at 6:59 AM, ldhair said:

There are many ways that work. I put on safety glasses and use a large pair of dikes/wire cutters. A few cuts at the edges and the slab will usually shatter. Some brands of slabs are tough to crack. It can make a mess. Some folks use a vice or a hammer. Some even use a band saw or table saw. The important thing is to hold the slab really tight and not let it fly across the room. 

What about a dremel tool?

On 11/4/2023 at 8:50 PM, VKurtB said:

Many dealers evade a sales tax nexus at NYINC by being foreign dealers. No U.S. national shows will locate in a place that charges sales tax on coins. It’s a near-universal thing. Baltimore Whitman has dealers SHARING tables specifically to avoid having enough days in Maryland under their name to establish a sales tax nexus. I get weirded out by folks here who don’t understand the “inside baseball” factors about shows. 

So where in your mind would you believe alternative show locations might be possible to avoid tax and union issues? For ANA, Whitman or other large show? 
 

I always leave it in the original holder and do not crack them out for that reason, but if you crack them out I believe that the graders will have a better look at the coin and will result in more successful crossovers as a result. Tough choice.

On 11/5/2023 at 7:50 AM, ldhair said:

I know that PCGS and NGC will crack coins out of questionable holders for you and grade the coins. I'm happy they will do this. It would be a big time saver for me. This is my question.

Will the graders ever see the old slab or the opinion the questionable other service gave the coins? I would think the coins go to the grading room as raw with no information about the old slab.

I have been led to believe that the graders will NOT see the previous grade. I’ve been told this several times from former graders and I believe that NGC states that someplace on their website.

On 11/4/2023 at 10:38 PM, RWB said:

Have election duty Mon-Wed, but unlikely there will be anything at the Baltimore show of interest in my specialty.

Keep those voters straight, no voting twice - this ain’t Chicago.

On 11/4/2023 at 2:23 PM, VKurtB said:

Yup, I’ll be there Friday on my way back to Alabama from Harrisburg, PA. 

If I make it, unknown at this point, I’ll keep my eyes open for you. Should be a decent show. 

Is anyone planning on attending the Whitman Baltimore show next week?

It will be interesting to see how this all works out. 

Even as the Brits and Aussies normally have tighter standards, I see some of the auction houses in those countries loosening. A bit of a ring of war right now.

Put them in a Dansco album and use it as a teaching aide

On 10/19/2023 at 11:57 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

5% 10-Year Treasury Bond:  Forget about default, the surging supply has resulted in the long yields ripping higher.  Lots of good values in bond funds and fixed-income vehicles, if anybody is interested post below or start a new thread in the appropriate section where we can discuss financial investments.

Short term money moving longer to take advantage. Possibly

On 10/4/2023 at 2:41 PM, VKurtB said:

I greet you from 34,000 feet above the Maine/Quebec border. 

Besides all the neat coins you brought back - did you encounter Europe’s swarm of bedbugs? 

On 10/5/2023 at 1:04 PM, zadok said:

...u think many coinex dealers will participate at the imex show in nashville later this month? did u see or hear of any comments bout that show? any advertising?

The dealer list is out for IMEX. A good mix, but lacking some of the ones I’d like to see.

Great find, interesting story. 

I think the majority of them are in the wait and see mode. No positive responses yet - still waiting on a couple to answer.  I’ll have to check out their website - maybe they have an dealer list.