What's in a name? 2 2

[Chris Mikesh]

Hi All,

A coin dealer I've been purchasing from for about a year called me today.  It's all good, so there is no suspicion, and he is reputable (so far).  Most of the coins I have acquired from him are NGC certified, and the numbers check out.  (Others are PCGS)

Some silver ASEs, and medals I am considering are signed by notable names (Ed Moy, John Mercanti, etc.).  Although someone commented in an earlier thread that the name was not important, it seemed to be important to him (perhaps the emphasis of his collection) but as we know, it does not change the coin.

Is there a market, need, or something I'm missing with regard to these signed slabbed coins?  Does a signatured series command more collectability?

I respect all civil opinions.  Thanks.

God Bless,

Chris

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:28 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Is there a market, need, or something I'm missing with regard to these signed slabbed coins?  Does a signatured series command more collectability?

Some of us value them, some of us don't.  By and large, Moy and Mercanti are well thought of by the community so their "signatures" on labels tend to command a SMALL premium.

As I believe all the coins they are on are moderns, just remember they have lots of company. 

[Walter Holmes]

I have one autographed 2015 ASE by Pedro Martinez. This is the year he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. A Mercanti might be nice on a 2021 Type 1 ASE. Other than that I see no increase in value with such autographed ASE’s except you pay a lot more for 1 oz of silver. 

[Chris Mikesh]

As I was going through my pile, I've discovered I have 12 Moy and 2 Mercanti.  But I don't recall paying a premium for them.  I'm beginning to see some "exclusive" signatures depending on the dealer (and some of THOSE prices are WAY out of line in my opinion).

[Coinbuf]

I am not a modern coin collector, however I do not care whose signature is on the label nor would I pay a penny extra for any signature.   But I have no doubt that some collectors would be willing to pay more because of a label signature.

[Woods020]

It’s just another way to market the coins. And the dealers love hyping them as well. Personally I don’t want anyone’s signature on my slabs, and not really a fan of provenance unless it’s one of a handful of noteworthy numismatists. 

[Lem E]

Be aware that not all signed slabs are “hand signed” by the actual person. Some are just printed signatures. It should be noted under the signature if it is hand signed or printed facsimile. Here are examples of both. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Lem E

[JT2]

I am a simple coin collector and not an autograph hound......

[Oldhoopster]

If you like the signatures, go ahead and collect them.  If you want to buy them because you think they'll be more valuable with the signatures, I think you have some good feedback here.  Maybe a small premium if you can find the right buyer, maybe bigger if you get lucky, but probably the same value as a standard slab to most collectors and dealers

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

I also think it highly depends on the signature.  Most coin collectors are not collecting signatures of US Mint workers (maybe some are).  Non-coin collectors do not even know the name John Mercanti.

However, I have a 2014 Baseball Commemorative with a hand signed Cal Ripken Jr. label.  This type of signature broadens your selling audience to baseball collectors, Baltimore Orioles fans, and Cal Ripken fans... 

With all collectibles the MOST important aspect of owning the collectible is that YOU like it.

[GoldFinger1969]

Chris, you won't find many people on an NGC Forum who will tell you they pay a premium for a modern coin with a guy's signature on the label.  Now, if you could buy a Saint Double Eagle with a COA signed by Augustus Saint-Gaudens, that would be another thing. 

The guys are right....it's 99.9% marketing.  You can debate having a modern coin graded and slabbed but at least you get something tangible with each:  an actual grade (70 or 69 or maybe 68) and a nice holder that makes handling the coin easy.  "First Strike" and "1st Day Of Issuance" and signatures by engravers, Treasurers, Mint officials, etc. are really not worth much at all, if anything.

That said, I do LIKE the modern NGC holders alot and when I do buy a graded and holdered modern coin, sometimes I will try and buy it in a modern NGC label.  How much more am I paying for that ?  Maybe $5, tops.  If I buy another 2009 UHR Saint recreation I want one with the NGC label that has the side portrait of ASG rather than just the plain gold foils or other artwork.  

But again...that's MY preference and I won't and don't have to pay much for that little perk.  Some folks charge an extra 20% or 50% or more for 1st Strike, etc.

Edited March 24, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

An "autograph" and a "signature" are not the same thing.

[Chris Mikesh]

Hi all,

Thank you all for the feedback.  The answers were as I expected, and good information.  I'm not an autograph or signature hound.  Personally - even if Donald Trump signed a label, I'm not sure it would attract me to buy the coin unless I'm trying to make a statement.  Yup, I get it... Signatures and Autographs are 2 separate things.  But thanks to LEM E for showing the difference.  I never noticed it before.

You guys are the best.  Thanks.

Chris

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:47 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Hi all, Thank you all for the feedback.  The answers were as I expected, and good information.  I'm not an autograph or signature hound.  Personally - even if Donald Trump signed a label, I'm not sure it would attract me to buy the coin unless I'm trying to make a statement.  Yup, I get it... Signatures and Autographs are 2 separate things.  But thanks to LEM E for showing the difference.  I never noticed it before.  You guys are the best.  Thanks.  Chris

Some labels ARE just nicer.  A PCGS label that I saw for an American Silver Eagle had a bald eagle on it in large size which I thought was pretty cool.  Some of the 2009 UHR Saints have plain gold foil which some like, and others have a picture of ASG which I prefer.

Years ago, they had nothing on these labels just like nothing on sports team uniforms or stadium walls.  Now, full of advertising. 

[Conder101]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:28 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Does a signatured series command more collectability?

Only from people who collect signatures or who HAVE to have every label variation.  I collect coins, not signatures.

[Hoghead515]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:13 PM, Coinbuf said:

I am not a modern coin collector, however I do not care whose signature is on the label nor would I pay a penny extra for any signature.   But I have no doubt that some collectors would be willing to pay more because of a label signature.

My thoughts exactly. Im not gonna pay an extra $50 or so, however much it is, for someones autograph or signature. Espically on bullion. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Hoghead515

[Chris Mikesh]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:42 PM, Hoghead515 said:

My thoughts exactly. Im not gonna pay an extra $50 or so, however much it is, for someones autograph or signature. Espically on bullion. 

Hi all,

 

Yup, I get it.  But that's why I posted the question.  Was there something I was missing in the coin collecting side of things.  I'm collecting 1, for the fun of it as I relive some of the 'good ole days', and 2, for the Grandkids.  But I can see how NGC, and other guarantee companies need to make money.  Hey... If I owned NGC, I'd be looking at the marketing also.  But we just need to sort out the hype and bluster.  Certainly, I can't fault someone if they are selling or if they are collecting these 'signed' coins and medals.  Maybe I'll be 'selling' signatures someday in the future.  (I'll ask for advice in a later time.)

Thanks all.

GB,

Chris

[RWB]

If yu can get dead people to autograph your slabs, that will definitely increase their value. Here's a web site to start ---

https://www.walmart.com/browse/patio-garden/shovels/5428_4091_4689569_3042426_3441876

[Hoghead515]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:25 PM, Chris Mikesh said:

Hi all,

 

Yup, I get it.  But that's why I posted the question.  Was there something I was missing in the coin collecting side of things.  I'm collecting 1, for the fun of it as I relive some of the 'good ole days', and 2, for the Grandkids.  But I can see how NGC, and other guarantee companies need to make money.  Hey... If I owned NGC, I'd be looking at the marketing also.  But we just need to sort out the hype and bluster.  Certainly, I can't fault someone if they are selling or if they are collecting these 'signed' coins and medals.  Maybe I'll be 'selling' signatures someday in the future.  (I'll ask for advice in a later time.)

Thanks all.

GB,

Chris

Its all in what you want to collect. If you enjoy them then collect them. Some people do and thats great. They have every right to. Everyone has their own things they like to collect. I dont criticize them in any way. If they like signature labels then Im very happy to see them collect them. Its just my opinion that signature labels are not for me. I dont like paying extra money for a coin over what the plastic its in looks like or because someone wrote their name on it. 

[Chris Mikesh]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:33 PM, RWB said:

If yu can get dead people to autograph your slabs, that will definitely increase their value. Here's a web site to start ---

https://www.walmart.com/browse/patio-garden/shovels/5428_4091_4689569_3042426_3441876

I tried to dig up Thomas Jefferson, but his finger snapped off. LOL!  (I was arrested soon after.  You might have read that in the newspaper...or not!)

[RWB]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:36 AM, Chris Mikesh said:

I tried to dig up Thomas Jefferson, but his finger snapped off. LOL!  (I was arrested soon after.  You might have read that in the newspaper...or not!)

I saw it on Foxx Gnews -- along with the report that the earth is flat.

Edited March 25, 2022 by RWB

[VKurtB]

ESPECIALLY when it comes to ASE’s, any “augmentation” to the basic coin and slab is a one way street. They want you to pay more for it, but will only pay you bullion value for it when it comes time to sell. Sucker bait. 

[J P M]

On 3/25/2022 at 12:04 PM, VKurtB said:

ESPECIALLY when it comes to ASE’s, any “augmentation” to the basic coin and slab is a one way street. They want you to pay more for it, but will only pay you bullion value for it when it comes time to sell. Sucker bait. 

I would think any common coins like my collection of  ASE's, Morgan's or Nickels will not bring in anything major. There are not a lot of specialty coins. Gray sheet and less a percentage of some kind I am sure so the dealer can resell easier.   

[Alex in PA.]

On 3/25/2022 at 12:04 PM, VKurtB said:

but will only pay you bullion value for it when it comes time to sell.

Exactly correct.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:40 AM, J P Mashoke said:

I would think any common coins like my collection of  ASE's, Morgan's or Nickels will not bring in anything major. There are not a lot of specialty coins. Gray sheet and less a percentage of some kind I am sure so the dealer can resell easier.   

If an ASE cost $30 raw ungraded a few years ago....and I bought a special label or signed one for $50.....if the price of silver goes to $75, then I suspect I will be able to more easily recoup some of the premium I paid as my "special" ASE might be worth $95 or more.....or maybe just a bit more than the $75 spot price (though I think it'll be more).

Regardless, any time you pay a premium to spot silver or gold, you take a risk that you won't recoup it in the future.  That's true of "signatures" or special labels or numismatic premiums.

[Chris Mikesh]

This is getting to be an expensive hobby!

I'm going to start a new thread(s) asking about Comitatives and your thoughts.  Also, you all speak of getting great deals or not paying "those high prices".  Where do you recommend, I refine my search?  Don't answer here - I'll start a new thread.  But thanks MUCH to all of you.

[VKurtB]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:53 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If an ASE cost $30 raw ungraded a few years ago....and I bought a special label or signed one for $50.....if the price of silver goes to $75, then I suspect I will be able to more easily recoup some of the premium I paid as my "special" ASE might be worth $95 or more.....or maybe just a bit more than the $75 spot price (though I think it'll be more).

Regardless, any time you pay a premium to spot silver or gold, you take a risk that you won't recoup it in the future.  That's true of "signatures" or special labels or numismatic premiums.

You will NOT get anything over bullion value. Count on that. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/26/2022 at 2:46 PM, VKurtB said:

You will NOT get anything over bullion value. Count on that. 

I doubt it, Kurt.  I might not get the same PREMIUM as a % OF THE COIN....and maybe not even the DOLLAR AMOUNT of that premium.

But I doubt it sells for exactly what spot silver or gold sell for or an ungraded, uncertified coin.

Now....my Reverse Proof UHR National Park Saint-Gaudens Commemorative....which I bought when silver was $22/oz. and I paid $110.....I doubt I am getting 5x the price of silver in the future.  But I doubt I only get spot silver, either.

[J P M]

On 3/26/2022 at 2:46 PM, VKurtB said:

You will NOT get anything over bullion value. Count on that. 

I think Kurt is correct if you are trying to sell to a dealer.. If you sell privately or at auction you may get a better return. Every dealer I talk to hate gold and silver bullion graded or not most only keep it in there shop to please there regular customers.    

[VKurtB]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:40 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I doubt it, Kurt.  I might not get the same PREMIUM as a % OF THE COIN....and maybe not even the DOLLAR AMOUNT of that premium.

But I doubt it sells for exactly what spot silver or gold sell for or an ungraded, uncertified coin.

Now....my Reverse Proof UHR National Park Saint-Gaudens Commemorative....which I bought when silver was $22/oz. and I paid $110.....I doubt I am getting 5x the price of silver in the future.  But I doubt I only get spot silver, either.

I am speaking specifically of American Silver Eagles. Dealers pay ZERO premium for any of them. But they ALL charge premiums for any special anything. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by VKurtB