MS 65T 2 2

[Hoghead515]

Hello good friends. I have a question about this grade. Im thinking about buying this quarter for my Washington collection. I think it has great eye appeal just from the photos. It may look different in hand. I was working on trying to get higher grades but theres no way I can compete with several in the registry so now I decided to go for whatever I find appealing. Even if I have to go for a grade or two lower. My question is, what does the T stand for in ms65T? 

[Just Bob]

Years ago, NGC would put T for toned and W for white on the slab.

That sentence should have had quotation marks, but, I was too lazy to add them.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Just Bob

[Coinbuf]

Yep it was a short lived attempt to designate a toned or blast white coin.   I kinda wonder if this may have been a mechanical error as that does not look very toned in the photo.

[Hoghead515]

 

 

On 12/31/2021 at 12:15 PM, Coinbuf said:

Yep it was a short lived attempt to designate a toned or blast white coin.   I kinda wonder if this may have been a mechanical error as that does not look very toned in the photo.

That was my concern. It looks very bright white. Thank you all for clearing that up for me. Ive seen those on slabs before and never knew the meaning. 

[Hoghead515]

I went ahead and bought it. I really liked the coin. It will have a nice cozy spot in the slab storage box with the rest of the GWs. 

[GBrad]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:28 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I went ahead and bought it. I really liked the coin. It will have a nice cozy spot in the slab storage box with the rest of the GWs. 

Good for you my friend for the purchase. Looks like a tad bit of toning on the top of the obverse.  I really like toned coins and I like this one.  I love it when collectors just buy what makes them happy (especially when the coin is budget friendly no doubt!!!) As far as the "T" on the label..... Just Bob and Coinbuf beat me to the meaning of the "T".  At least that's what I was gonna "guess" that it meant.....

Edited December 31, 2021 by GBrad

[Hoghead515]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:42 PM, GBrad said:

Good for you my friend for the purchase. Looks like a tad bit of toning on the top of the obverse.  I really like toned coins and I like this one.  I love it when collectors just buy what makes them happy (especially when the coin is budget friendly no doubt!!!) As far as the "T" on the label..... Just Bob and Coinbuf beat me to the meaning of the "T".  At least that's what I was gonna "guess" that it meant.....

Thank you my friend. Cant wait to see what she looks like in hand. Feels good to knock another slot down. Getting closer all the time. 

[bsshog40]

I think the balance is off making the pics look too bright. I think it may have some nice golden/brown toning to it. Nice grab!

[Henri Charriere]

Ever wonder why acronyms lack periods? It was discovered their cumulative effect cost sizeable amounts of money, hence FBI and CIA, sans periods. The NAACP lauded the move: they no longer had to disclose what the "politically incorrect" letters stood for. 

My first impression of the OP's solitary letter was not "toned" but numis-speak for "blasT white."  But what if in the intervening years, Toning develops?

I accept as reasonable the reason as set forth above. [Rickey the Rooster 🐓 , my alter ago will remain unchanged.]  😉 

[Hoghead515]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:52 PM, bsshog40 said:

I think the balance is off making the pics look too bright. I think it may have some nice golden/brown toning to it. Nice grab!

Thank you. I was thinking that may be the case also. When it arrives I will take new pictures and post them on here. I was wondering if it may be the setting on their camera or something. And it could be lightly toned. 

 

[GBrad]

On 12/31/2021 at 8:00 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Thank you. I was thinking that may be the case also. When it arrives I will take new pictures and post them on here. I was wondering if it may be the setting on their camera or something. And it could be lightly toned. 

 

I'm thinking I'm seeing some slight toning on the obverse around the 2200 to 0100 hours position. Can't wait for you to get it and post some pics to see what it really looks like.  I may have mentioned this before previously.  However, I wanted to actually ask a question/inquiry here about slabbed coins in general and throw yours in the mix Hog.  I wonder why TPG's don't (or if they do, please tell me how to identify this) give at least the year when a slabbed coin was graded and/or holdered?  I am under the impression that the type of holder, and the sticker, is the only viable way in which to  estimate a range of date when a coin was slabbed since TPG's change up their stickers from time to time.  Maybe I should have started a new thread asking this question.  Or maybe there is a way to tell what date a coin was slabbed and I'm just not knowledgeable on this.    

[Henri Charriere]

@GBrad

Bad timing... Mid-nite 2022!  Nevertheless, don't quote me on this (my memory is not as good as it used to be) but post NY's EVE, someone, maybe @Conder101, has the answer you seek. Every TPGS keeps meticulous records and no two (I am aware of) have developed and/or adopted identical certification number generators for universal use. A census and population is fairly straightforward, as are the line of encapsulations used which in the automobile world would distinguish a Buick from a Cadillac. Now computer-chipped holders have been introduced using near-field technology which has taken bar codes and USPS "optical character readers" as well as scanners to a whole new level.

I do not believe any encapsulation reflects information related to date of conception (though many boast lineage, the precise word for which has been a matter of contention among collectors for years.) If anything, much like the old quality cardboard used to house coins one distinguished member is rightly fond of having amassed the largest collection of them in the free world, patent numbers and copyright dates are available, as are approximate range of use, but precise dates and mintmarked coins are not.  [In France, e.g., fully half the 20-franc gold 🐓 rooster run bearing the dates 1907 to 1914 (called "restrikes" here; "redistributed" there) were actually minted in 1921, and from 1940 to 1950.]  

Stick around and you'll get a definitive answer, or Ask NGC/NCS, directly.

Happy New Year to the OP @Hoghead515 and the membership-at-large!

[Hoghead515]

Happy New Year to you to @Quintus Arrius Happy New Year to all my friends on here. Hope this year will be full of joy and prosperity.                                              @GBradive always wondered the same thing. Be nice to track them back to the exact time they were slabbed without guessing a time period by which generation holder they are in.  Im still trying to learn the generation of holders so I can guess how long each coin I have has been protected behind the plastic. 

[numisport]

For not seeking Registry quality material you will be rewarded down the road with the satisfaction of knowing you were able to hand pick your collection from coins having near equal eye appeal at a fraction of the cost. 

[Hoghead515]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:25 AM, numisport said:

For not seeking Registry quality material you will be rewarded down the road with the satisfaction of knowing you were able to hand pick your collection from coins having near equal eye appeal at a fraction of the cost. 

Thats what Im just now starting to realize. Took me a while but my eyes have been opened now. Ill never be able to afford to compete with the big boys in the top spots. I just want to put together a registry set with coins that have good eye appeal. Ive seen several lesser grade coins that were very beautiful. Such as this ms62. Its not a high grade but its appealing to me. Im very honored to fill a spot in my set with it. I may crack it out one of these days and resubmit it. I really think it could gain a higher grade. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Hoghead515

[Henri Charriere]

@Hoghead515

Before you resort to what the military refers to as termination with extreme prejudice, which is irreversible, why not do what I did: compare the encapsulated quarters of varying higher grades with your MS 62. Give them all a good once-over, and, starting with your best, or better, work your way down to your MS 62 making a note of anything you see that might detract from a higher grade.  You can sit and sulk or make this a learning experience.

One of my first buys was a raw 🐓 I was convinced would be the very first ever graded MS 68.  The grade I got, MS 64+, respectable though it was, never made it into my Set Registry. I was floored! But I didn't have a finer example with which to compare it with, until I did -- and then everything made sense.  Try it!  You've got nothing to lose.  

[Hoghead515]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:46 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@Hoghead515

Before you resort to what the military refers to as termination with extreme prejudice, which is irreversible, why not do what I did: compare the encapsulated quarters of varying higher grades with your MS 62. Give them all a good once-over, and, starting with your best, or better, work your way down to your MS 62 making a note of anything you see that might detract from a higher grade.  You can sit and sulk or make this a learning experience.

One of my first buys was a raw 🐓 I was convinced would be the very first ever graded MS 68.  The grade I got, MS 64+, respectable though it was, never made it into my Set Registry. I was floored! But I didn't have a finer example with which to compare it with, until I did -- and then everything made sense.  Try it!  You've got nothing to lose.  

I have compared it to several of my others. Ive got some ms66 coins with way more hairline scratches and weaker strikes. Not near as much luster. I honestly think the 1934 is a bit under graded. I think it could get a 65 easy after comparing it to the rest. Some of the ms66 coins I have dont deserve the grade they got in my opinion. Some should be 64 or 65s. 

[Henri Charriere]

@Hoghead515

I actually like your coin a lot.  Whether resubmission for reconsideration warrants the cost is a decision you will have to make.  Either way, as a collector who's been through much of the same, I share your pain.

[Hoghead515]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:15 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@Hoghead515

I actually like your coin a lot.  Whether resubmission for reconsideration warrants the cost is a decision you will have to make.  Either way, as a collector who's been through much of the same, I share your pain.

More than likely I will probably leave it as is. But I may break it out. I never know what kind of wild hair is gonna get in me. But it wont be sold anytime soon so it probably wont hurt to leave it be. 

[Just Bob]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:18 PM, Hoghead515 said:

 I never know what kind of wild hair is gonna get in me. . 

Judging by that beard, you have some wild hairs coming out of you, too. 

[Hoghead515]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:49 AM, Just Bob said:

Judging by that beard, you have some wild hairs coming out of you, too. 

Its starting to get really wooly now. Havent shaved in 2 years now. All kinds wild gray hairs. 

[numisport]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:56 AM, Hoghead515 said:

Happy New Year to you to @Quintus Arrius Happy New Year to all my friends on here. Hope this year will be full of joy and prosperity.                                              @GBradive always wondered the same thing. Be nice to track them back to the exact time they were slabbed without guessing a time period by which generation holder they are in.  Im still trying to learn the generation of holders so I can guess how long each coin I have has been protected behind the plastic. 

As you probably are aware, back in the early days at NGC we used numbered submission tickets that were sent out upon request. The ticket number then became the coin number and could give you some kind of idea when it was graded although not always because some submitters would use older tickets. Also understand that reholdered coins keep the original coin number resulting in many coins having an old number in a new style scratch resistant holder. Some of your coins in older holders that are not scratched up and have superior eye appeal are at the top as for desireability and IMO should be left alone.

 

 

 

 

[Hoghead515]

On 1/2/2022 at 12:35 PM, numisport said:

As you probably are aware, back in the early days at NGC we used numbered submission tickets that were sent out upon request. The ticket number then became the coin number and could give you some kind of idea when it was graded although not always because some submitters would use older tickets. Also understand that reholdered coins keep the original coin number resulting in many coins having an old number in a new style scratch resistant holder. Some of your coins in older holders that are not scratched up and have superior eye appeal are at the top as for desireability and IMO should be left alone.

 

 

 

 

I wasnt aware of that. Im a fairly new collector.  Thanks for the info. Ive got a couple I bought from a local pawn shop last year that are very lovely coins. The holders are scuffed up very badly. Looks like the previous owner or shop owner was very abusive to them. Id like to send them in to get scratch resistant holders. I put all my others in protective sleeves and keep them in storage boxes. How much does it usually cost to reholder one? Not including the shipping. I got a couple more Im gonna send to have graded. May send them all in at the same time. 

[Henri Charriere]

@numisport

Actually, I did not know that, but it makes sense.  And complicating matters is NGC's European outpost and the fact that submission forms evolve and expire continually.

[Hoghead515]

I got the coin in today. I cannot get very good pics. One of these days Im gonna get a good set up where I can take better pics but the junk im using will have to work for now. It looks just like the pics in the op. With the coin in hand. My pics dont look so good. It has a few very tiny black dots above Georges head. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Hoghead515

[Henri Charriere]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:10 AM, Hoghead515 said:

I got the coin in today. I cannot get very good pics. One of these days Im gonna get a good set up where I can take better pics but the junk im using will have to work for now. It looks just like the pics in the op. With the coin in hand. My pics dont look so good. It has a few very tiny black dots above Georges head. 

There is nothing like raw and this speci-, er, uh, example, is superb. Only problem I see is it puts you in the unenviable position of having to explain away those two horizontal, parallel "scratches" thru GW's head and neck.  With encapsulation: Why, those are just scuff marks on the holder! Right?  😉 

[Hoghead515]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:47 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

There is nothing like raw and this speci-, er, uh, example, is superb. Only problem I see is it puts you in the unenviable position of having to explain away those two horizontal, parallel "scratches" thru GW's head and neck.  With encapsulation: Why, those are just scuff marks on the holder! Right?  😉 

Your correct. Its scratches on the holder. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

@Hoghead515 I think you have a great view on this hobby.  Shedding the albatrross of registry competition can be very freeing.  You are building a great collection, and you are running your own race.  The triple-balancing act of technical grades, eye appeal, and budget is a difficult one.  It is what makes the hobby challenging and fun - but also teaches collectors lessons on compromise and sacrifice.  Through all of it, the theme is gratitude and comrade - and you... my friend... have that in spades! 

[Hoghead515]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:57 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

@Hoghead515 I think you have a great view on this hobby.  Shedding the albatrross of registry competition can be very freeing.  You are building a great collection, and you are running your own race.  The triple-balancing act of technical grades, eye appeal, and budget is a difficult one.  It is what makes the hobby challenging and fun - but also teaches collectors lessons on compromise and sacrifice.  Through all of it, the theme is gratitude and comrade - and you... my friend... have that in spades! 

Thank you my friend. That was very well put. Thank you for the kind words. 

[Lem E]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:10 AM, Hoghead515 said:

I got the coin in today. I cannot get very good pics. One of these days Im gonna get a good set up where I can take better pics but the junk im using will have to work for now. It looks just like the pics in the op. With the coin in hand. My pics dont look so good. It has a few very tiny black dots above Georges head. 

Nice looking piece brother. Is it toned a little at the top left?