Popular Post Lem E Posted June 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2021 I picked this up mainly out of curiosity. I was under the impression that AU coins did not receive a Full Step designation, yet I found this one. According to the NGC census there are only 35 AU graded coins with either a 5 or 6 Full Step designation across all years (1938 - date). Are these mistakes or will NGC give the FS designation to any coin that has them? I posted this question in the ask NGC forum, but for some reason it was never approved. I was just wanting to see what the rest of the community has to say. Thanks. Coinbuf, JT2 and Hoghead515 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member: Seasoned Veteran DWLange Posted June 20, 2021 Member: Seasoned Veteran Share Posted June 20, 2021 Whenever the coin merits it these strike characters will be applied to ones that are numerically graded. The coin doesn't have to be fully MS, though ones grading less than AU are unlikely to still show the requisite feature. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 Ok thank you Sir for the information. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Nice nickle for an AU Lem. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said: Nice nickle for an AU Lem. Thanks. Just another little oddity to put in the collection. This is the first one I have come across. Alex in PA. and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fenntucky Mike Posted June 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lem E said: I picked this up mainly out of curiosity. I was under the impression that AU coins did not receive a Full Step designation, yet I found this one. According to the NGC census there are only 35 AU graded coins with either a 5 or 6 Full Step designation across all years (1938 - date). Are these mistakes or will NGC give the FS designation to any coin that has them? I posted this question in the ask NGC forum, but for some reason it was never approved. I was just wanting to see what the rest of the community has to say. Thanks. Nice AU nickel Lem! I'm not a nickel collector so maybe I'm way off but I wouldn't have considered that a 6FS coin. Don't crack it out! Edited June 20, 2021 by Fenntucky Mike Hoghead515, Crawtomatic, Lem E and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said: Nice AU nickel Lem! I'm not a nickel collector so maybe I'm way off but I wouldn't have considered that a 6FS coin. Don't crack it out! Thanks Mike. I tried to get a few shots through the loupe. I think it is there. I don’t see any major merging anywhere. I would say the worst spot is under pillar 2 but there is still a visible line through that spot. Another spot between pillar 2 and 3, but again, still has visible lines. I think they gave the small nick under pillar 3 a pass. Its hard to tell that spot. Its very small. Edited June 20, 2021 by Lem E Add Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 All the steps are definitely visible and well defined I wasn't sure about the marks through the bottom two steps, under pillar 1 and 3, to go along with the slight merging on those same steps under pillar 2. If there is a visible line through those ring-a-ding-dings then it sounds like you're good to go. So as long as there is a visible line through a trouble area the step is considered unbroken? Sorry Lem, not trying to be a pain just looking to have some knowledge rained down on me. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 20, 2021 Author Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Fenntucky Mike said: All the steps are definitely visible and well defined I wasn't sure about the marks through the bottom two steps, under pillar 1 and 3, to go along with the slight merging on those same steps under pillar 2. If there is a visible line through those ring-a-ding-dings then it sounds like you're good to go. So as long as there is a visible line through a trouble area the step is considered unbroken? Sorry Lem, not trying to be a pain just looking to have some knowledge rained down on me. As far as I know, yes. You can have a nick or spot in the steps as long a line is still visible through that spot. If it merges two steps or breaks beyond that line (deeper/incuse) it is over. Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Looks pretty full steppy to me. Another nice nickel Lem. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Woods020 said: Looks pretty full steppy to me. Another nice nickel Lem. Thanks Woods. I look through nickel listings daily and just don’t see these, so I had to add it to the collection. I think it has a NGC price guide value of $6.00 and a registry point value of 9, so it won’t be replacing the current spot in my set. I think it is an interesting piece IMO. Too bad I couldn’t get these steps on some of my other higher grade nickels. Crawtomatic and Woods020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Lem E said: Thanks Woods. Too bad I couldn’t get these steps on some of my other higher grade nickels. Is there also some doubling on the M and O in Monticello? It is hard to see but it looked like it. 11 hours ago, Lem E said: As far as I know, yes. You can have a nick or spot in the steps as long a line is still visible through that spot. If it merges two steps or breaks beyond that line (deeper/incuse) it is over. Thanks for the information and photos Lem , I did not know that you could still have some marks on the steps ? I thought it was no marks at all. So as long as the horizontal lines are not broken it will pass at NGC and PCGS ? Edited June 21, 2021 by J P Mashoke Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT2 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Nickel fan here bud. ... .. she is a beauty that was a good hunt......... Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, J P Mashoke said: Is there also some doubling on the M and O in Monticello? It is hard to see but it looked like it. Thanks for the information and photos Lem , I did not know that you could still have some marks on the steps ? I thought it was no marks at all. So as long as the horizontal lines are not broken it will pass at NGC and PCGS ? I believe the doubling is just in the picture and not on the coin itself. No the steps do not have to be perfect, but the lines must be unbroken all the way across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, JT2 said: Nickel fan here bud. ... .. she is a beauty that was a good hunt......... Thanks JT2. I always like to pick up interesting finds for the collection, and this was a cheap find which always helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Same as any other detail-related attribute - wear is irrelevant. Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Similar to some not designating coins PL because they have a little wear or are not Morgan dollars. The criteria should be identical regardless of denomination or gradable condition. Lem E and Crawtomatic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, RWB said: Similar to some not designating coins PL because they have a little wear or are not Morgan dollars. The criteria should be identical regardless of denomination or gradable condition. I know I have read about having to be MS to get a full step designation in a couple different places. I’ll have to see if I can find that info again. Obviously doesn’t apply here at NGC. Thanks again for all the help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawtomatic Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lem E said: I know I have read about having to be MS to get a full step designation in a couple different places. I’ll have to see if I can find that info again. Obviously doesn’t apply here at NGC. Thanks again for all the help everyone. I'm sure I've read it elsewhere before. Thought it applied to NGC strike characteristics as well but that was probably me misinterpreting the usage of "Mint State" in the article below as "mint state 60-70 range" instead of as "Business Strike". That's a nice curious find, though. Certainly worth a pickup. https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6752/learn-grading-full-steps-nickels/ "Since 2004, NGC has used the 5-Full Steps (5FS) and 6-Full Steps (6FS) designations for qualifying Jefferson Nickels. These designations are only used with MS (Mint State) Jefferson Nickels. Proof coins are generally expected to have full steps." Edited June 21, 2021 by Crawtomatic brain & hands not coordinating Lem E 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 24 minutes ago, Crawtomatic said: I'm sure I've read it elsewhere before. Thought it applied to NGC strike characteristics as well but that was probably me misinterpreting the usage of "Mint State" in the article below as "mint state 60-70 range" instead of as "Business Strike". That's a nice curious find, though. Certainly worth a pickup. https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6752/learn-grading-full-steps-nickels/ "Since 2004, NGC has used the 5-Full Steps (5FS) and 6-Full Steps (6FS) designations for qualifying Jefferson Nickels. These designations are only used with MS (Mint State) Jefferson Nickels. Proof coins are generally expected to have full steps." Thanks. I believe I have read that article and I guess it was misinterpreted by me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Crawtomatic said: https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6752/learn-grading-full-steps-nickels/ "Since 2004, NGC has used the 5-Full Steps (5FS) and 6-Full Steps (6FS) designations for qualifying Jefferson Nickels. These designations are only used with MS (Mint State) Jefferson Nickels. I am having difficulty reconciling the plainly stated information provided in the link above with the comments made by Lem E, DWLange and RWB. Evidently, something has changed. Maybe grading standards have evolved. Or have simply been overlooked or ignored. One thing for sure: if I can see it with my own two eyes 👀 it would be disingenuous to claim otherwise. Then again, it would be sheer folly to advertise it. Someone with clout will politely point out there is no prior official Mint record supporting my claim of owning a Jefferson nickel with 7 Full (clearly distinguishable) Steps, irrespective of grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawtomatic Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 17 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said: I am having difficulty reconciling the plainly stated information provided in the link above with the comments made by Lem E, DWLange and RWB. Evidently, something has changed. Maybe grading standards have evolved. Or have simply been overlooked or ignored. One thing for sure: if I can see it with my own two eyes 👀 it would be disingenuous to claim otherwise. Then again, it would be sheer folly to advertise it. Someone with clout will politely point out there is no prior official Mint record supporting my claim of owning a Jefferson nickel with 7 Full (clearly distinguishable) Steps, irrespective of grade. 6 millions ways to reconcile, choose one: The author intended MS (Mint State) to represent coins minted for commerce - not in relation to grading scales. Consider me naive, but in any focus that relies on subjectivity I would expect changes over time. You may call that evolution if you like. An 8 paragraph educational article is likely not considered by a grader when making a determination. Nothing to overlook or ignore. There's not 7 steps on a Jefferson reverse. Irrespective of grade, year, mintmark, or composition. I shouldn't have responded but my earlier comment was to the OP in a "hey, I thought the same thing" way. I didn't mean to see it twisted into an Encyclopedia Brown adventure. If anything, the educational article could use a postscript outlining Mr. Lange's succinct and satisfactory answer that strike designation could apply to numerical grades if warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 I learned something so I am good with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Lem E said: I learned something so I am good with it. Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem E Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) I knew I had read this somewhere. This is from PCGS. https://www.pcgs.com/news/tips-from-the-grading-room-part-3Full Steps (FS) is the designation following the numerical grade of some regular-strike MS60 or higher Jefferson nickels that have at least five separated steps (lines) at the base of Monticello. Any major disturbance or interruption of these steps or lines, whether caused by contact, planchet problems, or another source, will result in the coin's not being designated FS. Only the slightest weakness on any step (line) is allowed for this designation. Some issues are almost never seen with Full Steps and may command a significant premium I knew I wasn’t completely crazy. I understand that the TPGS have different criteria for this, but you can see how it can be confusing. Edited June 23, 2021 by Lem E Add. J P M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
