1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Graded MS-65....no holder !!
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237 posts in this topic

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/pcgs-certifies-ultra-rare-1933-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-gold-coin/

Coin will NOT be slabbed....buyer at June auction can have it secured in a holder if they wish.  Only 1 other coin has been allowed to be granted non-holder certification, the PR63 Walton Liberty Nickel.

1933 Weitzman Saint MS65.jpg

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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I certainly was not aware of this.  But the coin is unique, in a sense, right?  The only one left that can be lawfully owned?  It ought to be encapsulated.  Maybe we all ought to take up a collection for the buyer who may very well turn out to be a non-collector.  😂

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10 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

I certainly was not aware of this.  But the coin is unique, in a sense, right?  The only one left that can be lawfully owned?  It ought to be encapsulated.  Maybe we all ought to take up a collection for the buyer who may very well turn out to be a non-collector.  😂

For this special a coin, I guess they come out and grade it or whatever.  If I had a coin from my grandfather and sent it to PCGS or NGC (?) and asked them to grade it but send it back without a slab in the velvet pouch I sent it in, I'm not sure they do that for me.

For 7-figure coins, I guess they make an exception. xD

This coin is so special -- and I suspect any coin that was graded but not slabbed would also qualify -- that any seller and buyer are aware of the coin's attributes and don't need any label to arrive at a future transaction.

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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4 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I really don't understand the point of having this coin "certified." Everyone knows what it is.

I agree Just Bob.  This one is so famous it doesn't need a slab advertisement.  What the future owner(s) decide maybe a different story.

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It can't compete against itself in a registry set :roflmao: so what's the point of having it slabbed. Leave it as is, I'm sure the new owner will be able to afford to give it a safe new home.

What would the advertising be worth if a TPG ever does slab it, should they be lined up outside the new owners door with sacks full of money to buy the rights to grade and slab it? Or how much did PCGS loose, if anything, by the coin not being slabbed? Is CAC the biggest looser in this?

Edited by Fenntucky Mike
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54 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

It can't compete against itself in a registry set :roflmao: so what's the point of having it slabbed. Leave it as is, I'm sure the new owner will be able to afford to give it a safe new home.

What would the advertising be worth if a TPG ever does slab it, should they be lined up outside the new owners door with sacks full of money to buy the rights to grade and slab it? Or how much did PCGS loose, if anything, by the coin not being slabbed? Is CAC the biggest looser in this?

If someone wants to own a 1933 Saint legally, this is their only option. And that’s regardless of who grades it, what the assigned grade is and whether it has a CAC sticker. CAC loses nothing, other than a small fee to review it.

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33 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

If someone wants to own a 1933 Saint legally, this is their only option. And that’s regardless of who grades it, what the assigned grade is and whether it has a CAC sticker. CAC loses nothing, other than a small fee to review it.

In a scenario where this coin is slabbed the prestige of having your company's name on the label would have some value. The same goes if it was sent to CAC and was stickered, that would also have value to CAC. I believe the publicity of having a companies name attached to probably the most famous coin in the world has value and would help generate sales. Agreed, the grade does not matter. If the coin bounces between TPGs then all this becomes diminished. 

Edited by Fenntucky Mike
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7 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I really don't understand the point of having this coin "certified." Everyone knows what it is. Why bother having PCGS (or anyone, for that matter) confirm something that is already known? I also don't understand the point of assigning a "grade." A number is not going to have any effect on the price that this coin brings.

Historical knowledge for the TPGs.  I'm sure Weitzman was told it'd bring more $$$ if graded.

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29 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

If someone wants to own a 1933 Saint legally, this is their only option. And that’s regardless of who grades it, what the assigned grade is and whether it has a CAC sticker. CAC loses nothing, other than a small fee to review it.

Mark, have you ever heard of high-end (or even lower-priced) coin owner having a coin resubmitted for a LOWER grade just so they could get a CAC sticker on it like an owner of a 1927-D Saint once did ?

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28 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

In a scenario where this coin is slabbed the prestige of having your company's name on the label would have some value. The same goes if it was sent to CAC and was stickered, that would also have value to CAC. I believe the publicity of having a companies name attached to probably the most famous coin in the world has value and would help generate sales. Agreed, the grade does not matter. If the coin bounces between TPG's then all this becomes diminished. 

If the Langbord 10 and other 1933's (?) ever get pardoned, then the buyer of the Farouk-Weitzman coin at least knows where they stand in the grading game.

A colleague whose grading knowledge I respect says that the 2 deep gouges on Liberty's left leg are a problem....they do stand out.  He wonders if it should grade an MS63. 

I'm torn....anybody got any thoughts ?

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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hypothetically, there was one scenario that suggested there could be 2-5 examples of the 1933 de that were never accounted for nor recovered....anything is possible even if not probable....if true any of those could be owned by a non-u.s. citizen in another country, especially if that country had less than friendly relations with the u.s......so i guess it is possible another one could show up in the future, it just couldnt be legally owned in the u.s.......

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4 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

A friend ATS says that the 2 deep gouges on Liberty's left leg are a problem....they do stand out. 

So do the marks on the torch but I'll defer to the experts on this one. Hard to believe that professional opinions would vary much on this.

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25 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Mark, have you ever heard of high-end (or even lower-priced) coin owner having a coin resubmitted for a LOWER grade just so they could get a CAC sticker on it like an owner of a 1927-D Saint once did ?

Yes.

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You guys can see the decent pics above (granted, not as good as having it in-hand).....do you agree with the MS65 grade or not ?

BTW, you can click on the pics 2 or 3 times to zoom-in (and now the Zoom-in feature doesn't work :frustrated:).

 

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

 

A colleague whose grading knowledge I respect says that the 2 deep gouges on Liberty's left leg are a problem....they do stand out.  He wonders if it should grade an MS63. 

I'm torn....anybody got any thoughts ?

 

33 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

You guys can see the decent pics above (granted, not as good as having it in-hand).....do you agree with the MS65 grade or not ?

 

It's market graded. The coin is actually a 63, but the grader thought it was worth more, so he gave it a two point bump.:baiting:  ;)

Seriously, though, overgrading famous rare coins is not new. Bruce Morelan openly admitted that his 1804 Dollar was over graded, and said that, in his opinion, most of the other examples were, as well.

I will admit that I do not have enough experience with gold coins to know if allowances are made for the difference in hardness of the metal, as compared to copper/nickel, etc. I do recall Mark Feld stating in a post some time back that this may be the case. However,  I will say that, if this were a Morgan dollar, for example, I think 65 would be a stretch.

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1 hour ago, Just Bob said:

 

It's market graded. The coin is actually a 63, but the grader thought it was worth more, so he gave it a two point bump.:baiting:  ;)

 

Here we go again with market-vs technical-grading, a questionable two-point bump, and the coup de grace: goughing... deep gouging. Fast-forwarding to the future, am I to believe a bona-fide collector twenty years from now will accept a loose coin, certified but unencapsulated, without further inquiry or examination? The members here would hound him off the Forum, but not before suggesting he get it re-certified and encapsulated, unique or not.

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5 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

You guys can see the decent pics above (granted, not as good as having it in-hand).....do you agree with the MS65 grade or not ?

I'm not familiar with this series but I took a look over at HA and browsed the 65's across all dates, I don't think it's to far off when compared to those. Marks on the leg and torch are probably the worst place you could have them, I think, as they are prime focal areas to me. I can get on board with a 65 I guess, a low end 65. If this was a more common mintage I'd be holding out for a better example, but it's not.

I think the bigger problem is the TrueView, the coin doesn't look very detailed in it, seems soft. Maybe that's how it is. (shrug)

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1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

I'm not familiar with this series but I took a look over at HA and browsed the 65's across all dates, I don't think it's to far off when compared to those. Marks on the leg and torch are probably the worst place you could have them, I think, as they are prime focal areas to me. I can get on board with a 65 I guess, a low end 65. If this was a more common mintage I'd be holding out for a better example, but it's not.  I think the bigger problem is the TrueView, the coin doesn't look very detailed in it, seems soft. Maybe that's how it is. (shrug)

Brilliantly said, Mike.....I agree with the points you made on the grade and the TV look.

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36 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

What makes everyone think that PCGS didn't pay for the privilege of grading this coin?

Yep!  

PCGS Certifies Ultra-Rare 1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Gold Coin

April 8, 2021

PCGS.com - coinweek.com - thedailycoin.org - greysheet.com - etc.

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1 hour ago, gmarguli said:

What makes everyone think that PCGS didn't pay for the privilege of grading this coin? People assume the owner/auction house submitted the coin, but isn't it possible that the TPG would approach them and pay for the privilege of grading this coin as it is being used as an advertisement for them. (And I don't care what was written in the article)...

Possible, but NGC graded the Langbord 10 and Sotheby's/Stacks-Bowers probably told Weitzman that if he wanted to maximize the return for his foundation, he needed to get it graded/certified. 

Remember, he is NOT a coin collector and didn't even have possesion of the coin -- he donated it to public viewing spaces.  He's not into the whole grading & labeling thing. :)

Edited by GoldFinger1969
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25 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

Yep!  PCGS Certifies Ultra-Rare 1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Gold Coin April 8, 2021 PCGS.com - coinweek.com - thedailycoin.org - greysheet.com - etc.

They are celebrating the grading, just like NGC did the Langbord Ten, but that doesn't mean they PAID for the priviledge.

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10 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

They are celebrating the grading, just like NGC did the Langbord Ten, but that doesn't mean they PAID for the priviledge.

Agreed. While it’s possible that they paid to be able to grade the coin, publicizing the event certainly isn’t any sort of proof that they did so. For all we know, they charged a boat load to grade it.

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