Making an investment? 2 2

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:33 AM, VKurtB said:

Most of those 2x2 housed coins have little monetary value, but the value received researching and attributing them and understanding them is too much to calculate. 

You are the mensch on the bench in every meaning of the word [and your contributions to this Forum are immeasurable.]

[Tim72501]

On 4/28/2020 at 10:19 AM, Rummy13 said:

Well the Government sent me my check and my better half told me I can use it on my coins.  So here is my decima, I can;

A. buy one rare coin, say maybe an 1909 S VBD or something like that.

B. Buy all the Silver Eagle Proof and Silver Proof Sets to complete those collections

I was wondering what long time and more knowable collector think. I plan to pass my collection to the next generation. I don't have many slabbed coins but a lot of albums. All the proof and mint sets from 1955 - 2020 .

Investment, 

 Certified Key Coins.  Or

Gold or Silver bullion 

[Oldhoopster]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:00 AM, Tim72501 said:

Investment, 

 Certified Key Coins.  Or

Gold or Silver bullion 

If we knew that, we wouldn't be hanging around coin chat boards answering questions.

If you've read through this thread, you'll notice one common response from many long time collectors. It's very difficult to make money collecting coins.  We collect coins because we like the challenge of putting together date sets, or we love the history, or we like the way certain coins look.  But coins as an investment?  I have a 401k plus individual stocks and mutual funds.  Coins are my loss leader 

[Sandon]

   You should consider coins to be assets and objects whose study enriches your life, rather than an investment.  Always remember that the spread between wholesale and retail for coins is much larger than it is for stocks, bonds, and commodities.  If you buy a coin at its current retail value, that value will likely have to increase by 30% or so before you'll break even selling to a dealer or at auction!  The coins that I've bought over five decades of collecting that have most increased in value are those that I bought because they fascinated me, not because I thought I would profit from them.

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:17 AM, Sandon said:

   You should consider coins to be assets and objects whose study enriches your life, rather than an investment.  Always remember that the spread between wholesale and retail for coins is much larger than it is for stocks, bonds, and commodities.  If you buy a coin at its current retail value, that value will likely have to increase by 30% or so before you'll break even selling to a dealer or at auction!  The coins that I've bought over five decades of collecting that have most increased in value are those that I bought because they fascinated me, not because I thought I would profit from them.

Just remember to do a “pump and dump” talk about what you collect and why you love it, at a major coin show, just before you put the whole schmeer up for sale. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:00 AM, Tim72501 said:

Investment, 

 Certified Key Coins.  Or

Gold or Silver bullion 

Neither. 

[VKurtB]

I just got off of a Zoom call meeting of the American Numismatic Association’s Membership and Outreach Committee. The Executive Director of the ANA, with NO PROMPTING FROM ME, spontaneously said how poor an investment coins are. THIS IS HER FULLTIME JOB!!!!! You don’t want to believe me? Fine. Believe her. 
 

And no, you’re not special and will not do better than everyone else. 
 

And no, William Devane and Lear Capital haven’t figured out how to do it either. They. Are. Lying. Have you noticed how Devane is now hawking alternative Medicare plans? Yeahhhh.

Edited November 2, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:38 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

You are the mensch on the bench in every meaning of the word [and your contributions to this Forum are immeasurable.]

Not mensch on the bench nor elf on the shelf. Just a guy asking why. 

[EagleRJO]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:59 AM, J P M said:

I keep searching yard sales and antique stores for that long lost Rooster QA needs

@Quintus Arriuswhich long-lost Rooster are you missing? I will keep my eyes open at yard sales and antique stores also. 

As for "investments" (add a throat clearing also to go with the quotes), beyond the 401k and personal investment accounts I have, I went with gold bullion coins which I thought if I bought at a relative low would be a happy middle ground between some older more valuable coins (nicer, higher spread) and bullion (not as nice, lower spread). Not so much with how volatile things have been, even though I still like the way the bullion coins look and feel in-hand.

Well, at least they haven't dropped as much as my 401k. I can't even look at the quarterly statements I get any more. I don't have any more tears left. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

What have precious metals prices done in the face of the most ridiculous increase in money printing in history? Well… gold is DOWN about 20% since March. You tell me what’s going on.

Edited November 2, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:00 PM, EagleRJO said:

@Quintus Arriuswhich long-lost Rooster are you missing? I will keep my eyes open at yard sales and antique stores also. 

As for "investments" (add a throat clearing also to go with the quotes) I went with gold bullion coins which I thought if I bought at a relative low would be a happy middle ground between coins (nicer, higher spread) and bullion (not as nice, lower spread). Not so much with how volatile things have been, even though I still like the way the coins look and feel in-hand. 

Well, at least they haven't dropped as much as my 401k. I can't even look at the quarterly statements I get any more. I don't have any more tears left. 

Quintus needs QUALITY. Not just high quality, but BLIND SCREAMING OH MY GAWD QUALITY. 

[EagleRJO]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:00 PM, VKurtB said:

What have precious metals prices done in the face of the most ridiculous increase in money printing in history? Well… gold is DOWN about 20% since March. You tell me what’s going on.

I know how you feel about precious metals, but at least the bullion bars and coins I added last year, combined with the bullion coins added not long ago, are pretty much a wash overall. Whereas my 401k is down like 25% to 30% over that same period. But I keep telling myself what goes down must come up (unless it's crypto which can go poof).

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:45 PM, EagleRJO said:

I know how you feel about precious metals, but at least the bullion bars and coins I added last year, combined with the bullion coins added not long ago, are pretty much a wash overall. Whereas my 401k is down like 25% to 30% over that same period. But I keep telling myself what goes down must come up (unless it's crypto which can go poof).

And MY pension income prospects CANNOT decrease, being guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, while my Social Security benefit will increase 8.4% in January. It all depends what your personal alternatives are. 
 

My mortgage payment NEVER goes up, and neither does my energy bill, as it is all nuclear and hydro generated - NO fossil fuels and it is a TVA cooperative. No coal, no gas, no oil, nada. We are all captives of the choices we have made. 
 

Yes, the legal system here is a dog’s breakfast and nobody here can drive worth a lick. They think the whole state is Talladega, but whatchagonnado. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by VKurtB

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:16 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not familiar with pricing in small denomination U.S. coins....but I'd be very afraid to pay a huge premium to face value for a penny or nickel or coins like that.  I'm always afraid of those coins replicating baseball cards and/or stamps.

My preference would be to buy a gold or silver coin, maybe at a 25% premium (gold) or very special year with low pop (silver).

 Sniff sniff...

Edited November 2, 2022 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[EagleRJO]

@VKurtBsounds like you have set yourself up pretty well, and I did see that nice SS increase. Wish I could lock in 401k payouts, then I really would take early retirement. 

[VKurtB]

Here is silver’s current 1 year chart. Oh yeah, baby, I gotz ta git me summa DAT action! /world’s biggest eye roll

 

Take THAT, Robert Kiyosaki. 

[EagleRJO]

If you go back a little more to a low point earlier in 2021 that's when I bought most of the gold, plus some silver, which was a wash last month and has now tanked even more over the last month. And it may keep on tanking. Just more tears and anger over what is being done to our economy, and another thing to remind myself not to check until everything recovers ... hopefully sooner rather than later.

[VKurtB]

All financial asset classes are down, and that’s not an accident. It is design, by the Federal Reserve Board and The Regime working in concert. They are intentionally impoverishing the whole nation. Instead of lifting people up to compete and excel, the effort is to spread misery as widely as they can. What a country!

[tj96]

You guys are right. It's not a mistake and it's not incompetence, it's absolutely intentionally!!  

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2022 at 8:23 PM, VKurtB said:

.... Oh yeah, baby, I gotz ta git me summa DAT action! /....

You heard that guy, too?Downtown local #6?  About 10:30 this morning? If I knew you were here, I would've canceled my doctor's appointment. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:38 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

You heard that guy, too?Downtown local #6?  About 10:30 this morning? If I knew you were here, I would've canceled my doctor's appointment. 

I musta heard him later. I try to avoid the local bus. The same joggers passing me over and over gets me mad. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:46 AM, VKurtB said:

I musta heard him later. I try to avoid the local bus. The same joggers passing me over and over gets me mad. 

The downtown local #6 isn't a bus; it's a subway line.  JLo immortalized it in a 🎵 song.  (It occasionally gets stuck with hours-long residual delays when [something bad happens.]  

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2022 at 9:17 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

The downtown local #6 isn't a bus; it's a subway line.  JLo immortalized it in a 🎵 song.  (It occasionally gets stuck with hours-long residual delays when [something bad happens.]  

If it doesn’t involve the JFK AirTrain or the #7 out to the previous Shea Stadium, I haven’t been on it. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:36 PM, VKurtB said:

I just got off of a Zoom call meeting of the American Numismatic Association’s Membership and Outreach Committee. The Executive Director of the ANA, with NO PROMPTING FROM ME, spontaneously said how poor an investment coins are. THIS IS HER FULLTIME JOB!!!!! You don’t want to believe me? Fine. Believe her. 

Why is it hard to believe she/they believe coins are a bad "investment" when that is backed up by historical numbers ?

On 11/2/2022 at 12:36 PM, VKurtB said:

And no, William Devane and Lear Capital haven’t figured out how to do it either. They. Are. Lying. 

Devane (great in MARATHON MAN and "24") is talking gold bullion.  Haven't paid much attention to the ads but unless he's saying they are better than stocks and bonds not sure he's in the wrong.  SEC would have something to say about it.

Worse are the infomercials selling overpriced numismatics.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:00 PM, VKurtB said:

What have precious metals prices done in the face of the most ridiculous increase in money printing in history? Well… gold is DOWN about 20% since March. You tell me what’s going on.

It's one of the best-performing asset classes YTD.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2022 at 2:53 PM, EagleRJO said:

@VKurtBsounds like you have set yourself up pretty well, and I did see that nice SS increase. Wish I could lock in 401k payouts, then I really would take early retirement. 

You can always annuitize investments but it generally doesn't pay to try and get the mortality benefit until your 70's.

And with investment grade and high-yield bonds now able to give you a 7-8% yield, it's not as important. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:08 PM, VKurtB said:

All financial asset classes are down, and that’s not an accident. It is design, by the Federal Reserve Board and The Regime working in concert. They are intentionally impoverishing the whole nation. Instead of lifting people up to compete and excel, the effort is to spread misery as widely as they can. What a country!

Rates are rising as forecasted.  Only a person ignorant of financial markets -- of which there are many -- would have thought rates were staying at zero.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2022 at 9:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's one of the best-performing asset classes YTD.

I offer you … the United States dollar. Beating every major currency and metals too. Cash is quite literally King. Just think about what has gone on since March. Federal Reserve Notes (and circulating coins) are beating the stuffing out of gold and silver. And most equities and bonds. Apple? Not s’much. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

🐓 :  What does E.F. Hutton have to say about all this?

Q.A.:  "When E.F. Hutton talks, people listen"...  that E.F. Hutton? 

🐓 :  That's right.

Q.A.:  They're long gone. Out of business. Kaput.

🐓:  E X A C T L Y !

[EagleRJO]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:08 PM, VKurtB said:

All financial asset classes are down

I put excess cash into I-Series bonds at 9.62%