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Hard Times Tokens - Post Your Images

Started by Hard Times,

862 posts in this topic

BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

Posted
Posted
Looks like your 65RB has the rust patch above the Donkey rear. An amazing set of 34's! No wonder there are none available out there!

 

Best, HT

 

Thanks HT... I'll have to check :)

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BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

Posted
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Onto bigger news.... First PCGS graded Hard Times Token.

 

Well beyond the Feuchtwanger German silver issues.

 

Not sure if this means they are doing the whole HTT series yet?

 

Maybe just the 1/2c as it's been in Redbook's Half Cent section forever and collected by collectors of such ever since Wayte Raymond included it on his boards.

 

14aa000.jpg

 

Cert Verification Info http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28236955/

 

Cert Verification #: 28236955

PCGS Coin #: 521356

Date, mintmark: 1837

Denomination: Token

Variety: HT-73 Copper Half Cent Worth of

Country: The United States of America

Grade: AU58BN

Holder Type: Standard

Population: 1

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EXOJUNKIE

EXOJUNKIE

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That is very interesting !

 

 

 

Could also be frightening as since PCGS started doing Conder tokens the asking prices have already outpaced NGC.

 

Put me in the "frightened" camp. I, for one, do not want PCGS jumping into HTTs -- or CWT/CWSC, or any other tokens for that matter. It will muddy what are currently some pretty clear waters and will ultimately be bad for the average collector. :ohnoez:

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BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

Posted
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Put me in the "frightened" camp. I, for one, do not want PCGS jumping into HTTs -- or CWT/CWSC, or any other tokens for that matter. It will muddy what are currently some pretty clear waters and will ultimately be bad for the average collector. :ohnoez:

 

Well my favorite way to purchase exonumia is Two Party Graded... Meaning just Me and the Seller. So 2014 may very well be a year that I will mostly just buy raw as that's the way I truly enjoy my tokens. Since I can weigh them, can get a true planchet thickness/diameter size, much easier to store, and photograph.

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BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

Posted
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OK now this is really the First PCGS graded Hard Times Token...

 

Not to sound like the boy who cried wolf when I posted about the 1837 HT-73 1/2c which is commonly collected along with federal minted half cents ever since Wayte Raymond included a hole on his coin boards.

 

So those could have just been included in the half cent population.

 

Now this Illustrious Predecessor pictured below is truly the first Hard Times token that PCGS has grade beyond the Feuchtwanger German silver issues.

 

Although there's still no mention on their pop report and as this is a satirical political issue it doesn't fit in any of these categories.

 

Miscellaneous:

 

U.S. Mint Medals

Feuchtwanger Tokens

So-Called Dollars

U.S. Assay Commission Medals

Betts Medals (1845-1887)

Civil War Tokens (1863-1864)

Store Cards (1800 to Date)

 

So I guess we'll see Hard Times Tokens listed soon?

 

It's also a off center strike error with the blank flan partially cupped on both the obverse and reverse.

 

2s7c5xv.jpg

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Very sad that Pee Cee Gee Ess is now grading tokens, trying to compete with the better TPG, I am upgrading all of my HTT's into new NGC Edgeview holders as we speak. I did that for my Conders last year. If I find a token I like in a PCGS holder, I will cross or crack to NGC! I can't find works unkind enough for PCGS to suddenly get into the token grading buisness......... I guess that means the Koolaid drinkers will now discover tokens, sheesh.

 

Best, HT

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EXOJUNKIE

EXOJUNKIE

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And just so you know PCGS doesn't discriminate, here's one on the other end of the grading spectrum.... doh!

 

Wowzers someone paid a Secure Plus up-charge to have that sniffed :makepoint:

 

I'm hardly surprised ... a Kool-Aid drinker out there somewhere will soon own it and think it is worth 10x more than it is because it has a blue, Secure Plus label. There is no accounting for taste I guess. (shrug)

 

This is another reason why pulling the ATS crowd into the still relatively "pure" area of exonumia is sad for some of us. :cry:

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Broadie, as nice as this Broadstruck HT-34 is, it doesn't look 66 or RB via image. The roughness that appears in the fields - is it really there? If so, this seems like a liberal grade. Doesn't mean I don't like it, but perhaps PCGS is not grading these accurately yet?

 

Best, HT

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BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

Posted
Posted
Broadie, as nice as this Broadstruck HT-34 is, it doesn't look 66 or RB via image. The roughness that appears in the fields - is it really there? If so, this seems like a liberal grade. Doesn't mean I don't like it, but perhaps PCGS is not grading these accurately yet?

 

Best, HT

 

HT, Now don't be a Debbie_Downer.jpg just because it's in the wrong plastic for you! ;):D

 

My images aren't doing it justice as my jaw dropped when I up-packaged it in the post office today. It's without a doubt one of the most attractive eye appealing Illustrious Predecessors I've ever seen. It has a ton of intense mint luster and vibrant deep blue patina blanketing mint red surfaces on both the obverse and reverse. I has tried shooting it multiple ways and have killed a roll of 36 exposure digital film in the process. :( I really need someone who can photograph proofs with ease to take a stab at this to make the color pop. The obverse and reverse fields have some trace die rust and this is a later die stage which can be seen on the tortoise shell. I have absolutely no regrets purchasing this and would have been devastated had I passed seeing what it looks like in hand. :) Getting back to plastic... I buy tokens and it doesn't matter who slabs them or if they are raw. Had I seen this off center Low-20 raw at a show I would have bought it. I'm more so excited about PCGS jumping aboard to see what might crawl out of the woodwork that otherwise may not. For what it's worth there's one token in a SEGS holder that I missed 5 years ago which was a very early die stage and the best struck of the variety I've ever seen... I'd just about give a pinky toe for a second chance to purchase it! ;) As far as your preferential TPG... Take a good look at the HT-150 on the bay that's soaring as this is a prime example of what I regularly see on the brouse floor or at lot viewing of stuff they've slabbed in the last 2 years. I saw this HMEI Richards in hand at a show and it has 4 man made gouges right in the center of the reverse. It should have been in a Unc Details holder as that's damage from tooling.

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EXOJUNKIE

EXOJUNKIE

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I saw this HMEI Richards in hand at a show and it has 4 man made gouges right in the center of the reverse. It should have been in a Unc Details holder as that's damage from tooling.

 

I noticed those gouges too...not cool! :o

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Dada, very nice HT half cent! Nice talking to you today at the Money Show!

 

Broadie, not trying to be a DD, but Johnny come lately PEE CEE GEE ESS still does not do it for me, but glad your new 34 is a killer! You ought to send it to me for imaging, I will take oh I dunno, maybe a decade to get it right and keep it during that time! :roflmao:

 

Best, HT

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brg5658

brg5658

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Dada, very nice HT half cent! Nice talking to you today at the Money Show!

 

Broadie, not trying to be a DD, but Johnny come lately PEE CEE GEE ESS still does not do it for me, but glad your new 34 is a killer! You ought to send it to me for imaging, I will take oh I dunno, maybe a decade to get it right and keep it during that time! :roflmao:

 

Best, HT

 

PCGS is also venturing into the Conder token arena as of late, and it's pretty humorous -- but also sad at the same time. Now a few sellers on eBay think their tokens are worth about 5-8x what they really are because they are in PCGS holders and have "purdy" TrueView images. :facepalm:

 

It's going to be really unfortunate for those of us in the Exonumia markets once PCGS starts creating competitive registry sets -- then all the hyper competitive crazies ATS will start crossing material to grade-flated blue label holders... :(

 

Need proof? This token came from Gary Groll's inventory, sold for around $300 -- now in PCGS "magical" plastic and posted for nearly $1200 on eBay. Granted, no sane person would purchase it for that much, and you can ask whatever you want. (shrug) The real kicker is that Gary Groll sold it for nearly 2x+ what Bill McKivor probably would have asked in the first place.

 

hm

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coinsarefun

coinsarefun

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That Conder as been on Ebay for a very long time and I think the market is speaking as it has not sold yet.

 

Can it be possible that since another popular grading party is grading Conders and US tokens this may bring them to the forefront and can be appreciated by other collectors?

 

Yes, it may bring up the price but I think the market does have a considerable input of the tokens and will eventually correct itself, just like the regular coin market did when both grader companies started.

 

I also think that we can all benefit not just in value but to validate these beautiful and sometimes very rare tokens. Yes PCGS is making a few mistakes but they will learn.

NGC is still making a few mistakes here and there but everyone is human.

 

I think we need to embrace the entrance of another large grading company coming into the market place instead of bashed.

 

It also may open the market even wider to the already graded ones in NGC holders

as some prefer them over other grading companies.

 

My 2 cents :)

 

 

 

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brg5658

brg5658

Posted
Posted
That Conder as been on Ebay for a very long time and I think the market is speaking as it has not sold yet.

 

Can it be possible that since another popular grading party is grading Conders and US tokens this may bring them to the forefront and can be appreciated by other collectors?

 

Yes, it may bring up the price but I think the market does have a considerable input of the tokens and will eventually correct itself, just like the regular coin market did when both grader companies started.

 

I also think that we can all benefit not just in value but to validate these beautiful and sometimes very rare tokens. Yes PCGS is making a few mistakes but they will learn.

NGC is still making a few mistakes here and there but everyone is human.

 

I think we need to embrace the entrance of another large grading company coming into the market place instead of bashed.

 

It also may open the market even wider to the already graded ones in NGC holders

as some prefer them over other grading companies.

 

My 2 cents :)

 

 

 

In my little world, a company has to earn respect, not demand it. The first few exonumia pieces I have seen in PCGS plastic don't garner respect for the simple reason that most are overgraded by 1-2 points to their NGC brethern. If PCGS eventually figures out what they are doing, then a few of their pieces will end up in my collection. Until that time they will only get a second glance if they are priced right. Places like CRO dabbling in Conders (with huge price tags) and Gary Groll (who should know better) will continue to be places that cater to those who have more money than brains. But, a suckers born every minute, and some will just continue to buy the holders they like without regard to the token inside. (shrug)

 

Let the kool-aid flow...

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BROADSTRUCK

BROADSTRUCK

Posted
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Broadie, not trying to be a DD, but Johnny come lately PEE CEE GEE ESS still does not do it for me, but glad your new 34 is a killer! You ought to send it to me for imaging, I will take oh I dunno, maybe a decade to get it right and keep it during that time! :roflmao:

 

Best, HT

 

Shot under diffused lighting and still not what it really looks like as only raw will truly display what a eye candy knockout it is in hand.

 

I only use 2 lamps and feel if I had 3 to 4 I might be able to make the full obverse pop in the slab?

 

qqs468.jpg

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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NGC was doing just fine in token grading/holdering and we don't need ATS to become involved for the very reason that it will simply cost more for our tokens. This is not a good thing and no justification will make it so. Good thing most don't know where to buy raw Conders, and I will be curious to visit Groll's table at FUN to see if his prices are jumping and if he has PCGS holdered coins. Sirna shares a table with him, and he has 100s in NGC holders so we will see.

 

Best, HT

 

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coinsarefun

coinsarefun

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Hmmm, so the only main worry or concern is that prices will continue to rise.

Seems kind of a silly reason to be against another grading company coming into the game

as I like when my coins appreciate and have added value.

 

I also like the idea the the tokens will further gain in popularity

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