Hard Times Tokens - Post Your Images

[brg5658]

Hmmm, so the only main worry or concern is that prices will continue to rise.

Seems kind of a silly reason to be against another grading company coming into the game

as I like when my coins appreciate and have added value.

 

I also like the idea the the tokens will further gain in popularity

 

[coinsarefun]

 

 

 

 

 

[Coindude]

Stephanie, I believe the point might be.... are they really appreciating and having value added, or will people just pay more because they have now been dipped in the blue Kool-Aid. No offense intended.

[Hard Times]

Hmmm, so the only main worry or concern is that prices will continue to rise.

Seems kind of a silly reason to be against another grading company coming into the game

as I like when my coins appreciate and have added value.

 

I also like the idea the the tokens will further gain in popularity

 

Stephanie I think you are missing the point - IMO the tokes will rise in value not because of justifiable interest and demand, but because of the hype the Kool-aid drinkers ATS bring to the table. These folks would have never probably even thought about buying a token before, and will be interested now only because PEE CEE GEE ESS decided it was okay to do so and put them in their holders. Sorry but I want folks to enjoy tokens because of genuine interest, not because of holder hype.

 

Seems like a silly reason to buy tokens because you buy into marketing and hype and that is what we will see until the hype goes away, then your added initial value you like might also go away as well, I hope you like that when time comes to sell if you hold beyond the hype time.

 

Best, HT

 

 

[KeyMan64]

Short term thinking process - Things might be a little bumpy depending upon your perspective.

 

Long term thinking process - It will only benefit the hobby. Some folks might only deal with PCGS, as HT has noted, but some of those folks might own tokens. Those tokens will now make their way into holders providing greater opportunity to all of those interested. It is more common for slabbed items to make it to auction than raw these days. If folks wish to buy PCGS slabbed examples they can of course cross them to NGC. The reverse is also true.

 

To wish to avoid short term issues and forgo long term benefits for the hobby as a whole is just silly.

 

Before anyone decides to speculate/assume things about myself, I buy coins in all holders but tend to cross them to one brand in order to play the registry set game and keep my collection organized, neat and tidy in my view of course. I have an interest in a few tokens due to the history that they represent and I plan on owning a few in the future. I am in the education of myself phase at this time. I am a bit more optimistic and think this move by PCGS has long term benefits to all.

 

As for the assertion that prices might go up due to increased demand. All I have to say about that is, DUH! HT has probably been doing this a long time and probably has many tokens. Are you really going to cry if the value of your collection goes up? Granted, the acquisition of additional examples might get a little more expensive, at least in the short term. I would think your knowledge will continue to serve you well and not cause you any harm.

 

My token thoughts on the matter.

[CyberspaceVoid]

I have to agree with Hard Times .... Pee Cee Gee Ess doesn't have a clue on grading these things.

 

By having a "liberal" grading standard they will be hurting not only their label but also potential interest. What novice wants to collect anything new after paying full market prices and it later turns out to be much less of a value than they thought? I will stick to NGC for my tokens ....

[brg5658]

Short term thinking process - Things might be a little bumpy depending upon your perspective.

 

Long term thinking process - It will only benefit the hobby. Some folks might only deal with PCGS, as HT has noted, but some of those folks might own tokens. Those tokens will now make their way into holders providing greater opportunity to all of those interested. It is more common for slabbed items to make it to auction than raw these days. If folks wish to buy PCGS slabbed examples they can of course cross them to NGC. The reverse is also true.

 

To wish to avoid short term issues and forgo long term benefits for the hobby as a whole is just silly.

 

Before anyone decides to speculate/assume things about myself, I buy coins in all holders but tend to cross them to one brand in order to play the registry set game and keep my collection organized, neat and tidy in my view of course. I have an interest in a few tokens due to the history that they represent and I plan on owning a few in the future. I am in the education of myself phase at this time. I am a bit more optimistic and think this move by PCGS has long term benefits to all.

 

As for the assertion that prices might go up due to increased demand. All I have to say about that is, DUH! HT has probably been doing this a long time and probably has many tokens. Are you really going to cry if the value of your collection goes up? Granted, the acquisition of additional examples might get a little more expensive, at least in the short term. I would think your knowledge will continue to serve you well and not cause you any harm.

 

My token thoughts on the matter.

 

No offense KeyMan64, but I have never seen you post any exonumia, nor do I think you know much about this niche market. Though you are entitled to your opinions, your comments don't really hold much weight here.

 

I'm with HT on this one. PCGS will bring nothing to the market except a lot of over-graded, over-hyped, and over-priced tokens. There is no demand for PCGS to grade these types of pieces beyond maybe 5 collectors who are used to overpaying anyway -- CRO has been posting a few Conders in PCGS holders at absolutely insane prices -- and they have been selling. It's a very small market of kool-aid drinkers who think that exonumia in PCGS holders is a good idea. The rest of us will continue to purchase raw and/or NGC graded tokens.

 

In the rare event that I find a properly graded and reasonably priced CWT or Conder token in a PCGS holder, I might purchase it. But, based on what I've seen so far, that will be a very long time. The same can be said for PCGS' recent dabbling in grading of so-called-dollars. The only driving force are the few hyper-competitive registry hoarders ATS who bleed blue.

 

If they want to prioritize they should first get their grading and attribution of non-USA coins up to NGC par before trying to break into an even more esoteric and niche market like exonumia. But, I'm just a joe-schmoe collector with no pull. They will do whatever they think will get the money in their coffers regardless of logic.

[KeyMan64]

No offense KeyMan64, but I have never seen you post any exonumia, nor do I think you know much about this niche market. Though you are entitled to your opinions, your comments don't really hold much weight here.

I am not offended.

 

I thought I was clear but I guess not. I have not posted any exonumia because I do not own any.

 

As for niche coin markets, I know a lot. As for ACTIVE REGISTRY SET BUILDERS for the Complete Mercury Dime Varieties, I can count them on ONE hand. If that isn't a niche, I am not sure what is. Sure there is the occasional interest for an item outside of the reg set builders but it isn't much. So, yes, I have knowledge about smaller coin niches than tokens.

 

I never stated if I cared if my opinions hold much weight around here but I pleasantly report that I do not care. With a degree in Finance and a healthy dose of knowledge when it comes to supply/demand, I'd like to think I have a clue about how many things work.

 

To dismiss any newcomer as less intelligent is naive. So many of the comments on here are short-sighted. Do you seriously not think PCGS' grading of these items will not evolve as more is learned? Do you seriously think that the market will not dictate the pricing over the long term? If PCGS' grading does not evolve over the long term then your beloved NGC holdered items will just carry that much more weight. Use your expertise and you will be just fine. There is no reason to get all upset that PCGS is joining in. One day you or your heirs will sell your collection. Do you want greater demand or lower demand when that happens? Do you want higher prices or lower prices when that happens? Do you want greater market acceptance of exonumia or less? Do you want a more educated market place or less?

 

Think people. Think long term! I used to be a stock broker, not that carries any weight around here. The short term thinkers almost always got burned up. The long term thinkers are quite well off. This is just another financial asset where many financial principles can be applied. Use your knowledge to your advantage. Don't get all hot and bothered by the hype or changes in the market place. There is no need. One constant thing in life is change. Embrace it and you will be fine. Knowledge is power.

[brg5658]

No offense KeyMan64, but I have never seen you post any exonumia, nor do I think you know much about this niche market. Though you are entitled to your opinions, your comments don't really hold much weight here.

I am not offended.

 

I thought I was clear but I guess not. I have not posted any exonumia because I do not own any.

 

As for niche coin markets, I know a lot. As for ACTIVE REGISTRY SET BUILDERS for the Complete Mercury Dime Varieties, I can count them on ONE hand. If that isn't a niche, I am not sure what is. Sure there is the occasional interest for an item outside of the reg set builders but it isn't much. So, yes, I have knowledge about smaller coin niches than tokens.

 

I never stated if I cared if my opinions hold much weight around here but I pleasantly report that I do not care. With a degree in Finance and a healthy dose of knowledge when it comes to supply/demand, I'd like to think I have a clue about how many things work.

 

To dismiss any newcomer as less intelligent is naive. So many of the comments on here are short-sighted. Do you seriously not think PCGS' grading of these items will not evolve as more is learned? Do you seriously think that the market will not dictate the pricing over the long term? If PCGS' grading does not evolve over the long term then your beloved NGC holdered items will just carry that much more weight. Use your expertise and you will be just fine. There is no reason to get all upset that PCGS is joining in. One day you or your heirs will sell your collection. Do you want greater demand or lower demand when that happens? Do you want higher prices or lower prices when that happens? Do you want greater market acceptance of exonumia or less? Do you want a more educated market place or less?

 

Think people. Think long term! I used to be a stock broker, not that carries any weight around here. The short term thinkers almost always got burned up. The long term thinkers are quite well off. This is just another financial asset where many financial principles can be applied. Use your knowledge to your advantage. Don't get all hot and bothered by the hype or changes in the market place. There is no need. One constant thing in life is change. Embrace it and you will be fine. Knowledge is power.

 

We're clearly talking past one another. I don't collect to make money, and I honestly could not care less what my collection is worth when I die. If you only look at collecting as an investment, then you won't understand what many of us are trying to point out. Let me reiterate the current take on PCGS' involvement in this arena. HYPE. That's all.

 

I'm not upset about PCGS getting involved. It's simply a bit saddening to see yet one more arena of numismatics be watered down to just another "trinket" for people to add to their registry sets, so they can stroke their egos. I'm not losing any sleep over it, as I know it's inevitable that the market go the way of most other things in US numismatics. I will just purchase more from the UK and from reputable dealers here in the USA who aren't obsessed with the blue labels that so many seem to be enamored with.

[brg5658]

For the record -- as someone here (I can guess who) apparently tattled to John @ CRO that I had mentioned CRO in this post -- I have absolutely NO problems with CRO as a company or as a business.

 

John is a true gentleman, and even sent me a PM ATS. I was simply stating that some people have no problems dropping $2K for a Conder token that, if raw, would probably go for around $300-$500. For some people, the flavor of plastic and numbers on the label are simply more important than what's inside.

 

Heck, there are people ATS who are more interested in the glamour shots (TrueViews) of their coins than the actual coins also. To each his/her own. I just wanted to clear the air here -- CRO is a very competent company, with more eye candy that one can digest. More power to them to sell some Conders at massive premiums, but sometimes you just have to shake your head and smile...and hope the buyer realizes how buried they are.

[BROADSTRUCK]

I am really saddened to see a thread which has remained wholesome for 3 years...

 

Now irrecoverably flushed down the crapper in less then 24 hours over plastic angst silliness!

[brg5658]

I am really saddened to see a thread which has remained wholesome for 3 years...

 

Now irrecoverably flushed down the crapper in less then 24 hours over plastic angst silliness!

 

Broadie, sorry for my contributions to that flushing...I'll refrain from any further comments.

 

[Hard Times]

Broadie et al.,

I think this is good, healthy dialogue on an important issue - when a new market mover gets involved that will ultimately cause prices of HTT"s to rise, for good or for worse, it is good to hear all opinions on the issue. This is part of what this thread is for when I started it, to view and discuss HTT's, to learn about HTT's and the history of the era, and to discuss issues related to collecting them. So this issue will be discussed, and then we move on. No worries and I certainly have not seen any posts that were offensive and detracting from the thread, just committed collectors expressing their view on this important issue. Perhaps my posts on the issue are a little harsh on our friends ATS, so I apologize (kind of) for that.....

 

Best, HT

[coinsarefun]

Looks like a new book is coming next year.

 

May prove interesting.

 

 

[EXOJUNKIE]

Looks like a new book is coming next year.

 

May prove interesting.

 

I read this today too. Thanks for posting this . I hope the contributor aperture opens wider than just Dr. S. and Steve though. I, for one, have more than a few unplated HTTs I'd like to see added for everyone's collective benefit. HTTs have come a long way in the past few years...I hope Whitman gives it more than just superficial treatment.

 

Broadie - Has QDB called you yet?

[Hard Times]

Thanks Mr. Bowers! Can't wait!

 

Best, HT

[BROADSTRUCK]

Are you OK with seeing this in a graded holder?

 

It isn't uncommon to see a auction lot number or variety written on older copper in graphite, wax, or chalk.

 

This has the Low-62 attribution listed right in the obverse fields.

 

Should this have really been graded issue free?

 

[coinsarefun]

no, it's should have been marked graffiti

 

 

 

 

[EXOJUNKIE]

Agree...I don't think it should be in a problem-free holder unless you could attribute it to a specific museum or something like that and it was noted as such on the slab label.

 

Although perhaps NGC downgraded it to AU because of the marking, as I've seen worse in MS62/63 holders.

[BROADSTRUCK]

Care to take a stab at the two HTT's I chased and won in the Heritage FUN auction?

[coinsarefun]

I was wondering that for the last week. Did you end up with any?

 

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

I was wondering that for the last week. Did you end up with any?

 

Yes just the two I wanted which I'll post once they arrive.

 

Just glancing and there's nothing coming up at S/B or Hayden's HTT wise that is calling my name.

 

[coinsarefun]

Is it me, I cannot find anything interesting in the SB auction coming up.

It seems to me that the previous years had much more stuff in the Americana Auctions.

 

Maybe a good portion has dried up since the majority of Ford and others are finished?

 

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

It's OK as I don't mind a break instead of being hit from all sides.

 

S/B's new site just isn't fun to even search.

[EXOJUNKIE]

I was wondering that for the last week. Did you end up with any?

 

Yes just the two I wanted which I'll post once they arrive.

 

I'll take an educated guess and say the HT-150 and HT-297. The 150 had your name written all over it and will obviously photograph well. I'll be surprised if the other is the 297 as, while it is scarce in that grade, it just didn't look like your style. Either way, congrats...pickings are slim nowadays.

[EXOJUNKIE]

S/B's new site just isn't fun to even search.

 

I AGREE! They really blew it.

[BROADSTRUCK]

I'll take an educated guess and say the HT-150 and HT-297. The 150 had your name written all over it and will obviously photograph well. I'll be surprised if the other is the 297 as, while it is scarce in that grade, it just didn't look like your style. Either way, congrats...pickings are slim nowadays.

 

Bingo on the HT-150 as that's the nicest example I've ever seen of this issue, well struck, no spots, no stains, not plagued by micro chatter, or rim issues.

 

You know me well as I had no interest in the HT-297 as it looked dry and I didn't care for what was going on below the L in ROLLED on the reverse.

[EXOJUNKIE]

I'll take an educated guess and say the HT-150 and HT-297. The 150 had your name written all over it and will obviously photograph well. I'll be surprised if the other is the 297 as, while it is scarce in that grade, it just didn't look like your style. Either way, congrats...pickings are slim nowadays.

 

Bingo on the HT-150 as that's the nicest example I've ever seen of this issue, well struck, no spots, no stains, not plagued by micro chatter, or rim issues.

 

You know me well as I had no interest in the HT-297 as it looked dry and I didn't care for what was going on below the L in ROLLED on the reverse.

 

I'll remain in suspense on the other one and look forward to the pics!

[BROADSTRUCK]

I'll remain in suspense on the other one and look forward to the pics!

 

I was kicking myself for not having bought the HT-262 when it sold at Stack's for 1/2 in 2009 as a raw AU58... Really nice example for the issue!

[EXOJUNKIE]

I was kicking myself for not having bought the HT-262 when it sold at Stack's for 1/2 in 2009 as a raw AU58... Really nice example for the issue!

 

THIS ONE?!