JKK

Toning can be pretty, ugly, or meh. I think the cause of these was the cellophane. I'm not sure when it was, but sometime around the 80s perhaps, PVC went out the window as a source of coin storage. I'm not sure if these have PVC or something else, but that's when the major shift in archival quality storage came along. You should see coins that were stored in those old clear plastic PVC tubes for decades--they have to be acetoned just to get the gross greenish-blue slime off. Nasty.

1941 was the standard bronze. 1944 was a slightly different but very similar bronze. The toning you are seeing might have come from being in an old Whitman album. They might have been cleaned and then put in an album, from the looks of it.

Copper is a very reactive metal that can develop patina (or corrosion) from a wide variety of environments. In old coin albums, the coloring can come from sulfur in the paper; same for old coin rolls, which is how long-rolled coins can develop natural toning that begins at the rims. There are also cases, quite common in early Lincs, of woodgrain toning which I believe is caused by a slightly incomplete mixing of the copper alloy. They're really pretty, though it doesn't typically add tons of value.

When you post a question about a coin or coins, it's worth remembering that the people giving you answers--unless it is specifically about an NGC policy matter or submission--are volunteer hobbyists who do this for fun. They are not speaking for NGC; they speak only for themselves, and they want to help people. When you do a good job of posting your inquiry, you increase your chances of helpful replies, because you show respect for the volunteers' time.
Please do:
Ask a question, or multiple questions. We need to know what to focus on. Authenticity? Grade? Identification? Value? All of these? Think about your questions. "What would this grade at NGC?" and "What grade would you give this coin?" are two very different questions. If you ask the first one, only people who know a lot about NGC's ways have much to offer you. "How much is this worth?" is another nebulous question. Better: "What would a dealer pay me for this?" Or: "What would a dealer sell this for?" Post clear photos of the entire obverse, reverse, and if necessary the edge. If need be, add zoomed photos of specific features, but always clear shots of both full sides. Post all pictures of a given coin in the same thread. Accept that if you have photographic limitations, and you keep posting badly photographed coins, you'll keep being told they're not good enough to use to answer your question. You can't expect everyone to read all your threads and know your circumstances, be they poverty or Parkinson's or can'tbebothereditis. It's not their fault your photos can't or won't get better, even if it is also not always your own fault. Use a thread title that describes the coin(s), so that people who know the subject matter are likelier to read the thread. If you just inherited Bampaw's silver dollar collection which you can see spans the period 1850-1921, you could title it "Evaluating silver dollar collection 1850-1921." People who know a lot about those silver dollars will see it and be likely to help you. "Grading advice" is bad; everyone wants grading advice. "Morgan dollar grading advice" is good. "Is this fake?" is bad. "Is this Chinese silver coin fake?" is good. Post only once per coin. (If you have received a huge collection, and you want to start with a picture of the whole hoard with zoomed shots of parts, that's no problem. This guideline is intended to keep people from slamming multiple fully photographed coins into a single thread, making it difficult to figure out which one the answers are talking about. So if it's a hoard, and you single out some for close scrutiny, go with new threads for each of those.) If the picture files are too large in terms of data, learn to make them smaller without losing necessary information. Paint.net is a free image editor for Windows. Open your pictures in it, crop them, and save them as .jpgs. Look at what sizes they are now. This is too easy. If there is any question of identification or authentication, include weight in grams and diameter in millimeters. If you don't know the metric system, use an online converter. Weight is one of the key diagnostics of authenticity and unless the coin is too obviously bogus to bother, you will be asked for it. Just include it with your first post. Tell us what you know, or what you believe to be the case, about the coin. It's okay to be incorrect. Understand that the term "melt" does not automatically mean someone plans to melt the coin down, nor is anyone suggesting you should. It refers simply to the value of the metal for its own sake. Do not freak out when someone says "melt" about Bampaw's Morgan dollars. We really do not want or expect you to throw it in a blast furnace, all right? Use punctuation. Being easy to read works to your benefit. When you write a twelve-line paragraph with no periods or commas, people tune you out. For those who need reminders, this , is a comma. You use it to separate phrases, more or less. This . is a period. You use it to end most sentences. Hitting Enter will insert a paragraph break. You use this between series of thoughts. Live them. Love them. Use them. because ill tell u what really suxors is when some1 posts sententses like this 1 4 about half a page its impossibel 2 read and some people including me will prob not finish readin it which means u arent gettin as many respontses think about it ur only hurtin ur own cozz notice how stooped this reads ur in affect makin urself ten times harder 2 help and frankly its disrespectfull 2 assume entellegent people should do all that extra work 4 ur sake now kinely clean up ur act and rite like u at least got thru 6ixth grade im glad we had this little talk Come prepared to accept responsive answers. Brace yourself to learn that Bampaw or Opa, always considered the family's Great Numismatist, may not have been so great at this. No one seeks to offend your relative's legacy, but the coin must be called what it is. Be patient. No one who doesn't know the answer is going to post "I don't know." It can take days to a week for someone to notice. Remember that some inquiries may require research, for which volunteers are not being paid, and are doing as they have time. Expect that opinions may vary, even among experienced numismatists. Realize that if you're rude and/or difficult, your problem is not the people who take time to fight with you. Your problem is the people who, without a word, mark you down as someone not to bother with in the future--because you have no idea who or how many they are, and thus have no power to alleviate that diagnosis. Kindly do not:
Just post pictures without giving any indication of what you want to learn. Post glare-obscured, blurry, or otherwise poor photos. Post only partial pictures of errors or damage. Complain that your pics are too big to post. Use an image editor to crop and save them as .jpgs. Get defensive when told your pics are not good. Maybe you're bad at photography; maybe you don't have a good camera; maybe the photography gods just don't like you. If you can do better, do so. If you cannot do better, than just accept that this limits how much we can help you. Post a new thread for every photo of the same coin. Post new threads in the same forum, or other forums, with reference to the same coin. Once suffices. The shotgun approach makes one look impatient and immature. Use a meaningless thread title like "looking for advice" or "no idea what 2 do" or "plz help." Those tell people nothing about the discussion except that it was begun by someone who picks meaningless thread titles. Omit weight and diameter, unless they are completely irrelevant to your question. Get annoyed if you don't like the answers. If you disagree with them, fine; act on your views. Ask us to tell you how we know it's a counterfeit. While that's a legit question on its face, the problem is that even if you didn't mint the fake, those who make them are always looking for ways to improve. We frown upon supplying helpful feedback to criminals, and so should you. So no, don't ask us that. And if we tell you politely that we aren't going into detail, don't get annoyed because you don't like that answer. Grouse about not getting any replies. No one knows everything; no one has unlimited time; sometimes no one knows the answer. Come in telling how many Youtube videos you have watched about coins. This will lower your credibility. Use Photobucket links. If you do, don't anticipate that people will use them. Photobucket has been connected with numerous malware and virus infections. Spell 'nickel' as 'nickle.' Whether referring to the element or the five-cent coin, this misspelling is a very bad look. If you take the time to do this correctly, you can learn a lot more here than if you skip important steps.
If you do not take the time to do this correctly, some posters may decide that their time is better spent helping other people.
Lastly, here is a Cliff's Notes version that would take care of 95% of the most common disappointed inquiries. If you want to post yours anyway, fine, but just please kindly do not engage in a protracted and dullard debate when you are told that:
Your 1804 silver dollar is a bad counterfeit. Look up authentic examples and compare closely. Your 1776 Continental dollar is a bad counterfeit or a souvenir replica. Many were churned out. What you think is a double die is almost surely mechanical doubling, which carries no premium. What you think is a mint error is likely post-mint damage, and your coin is worth face value. Your "silver" non-1943 penny is plated, replated, has had the plating come off, is altered, or somesuch. Your "bronze" 1943 penny is altered somehow, and is worth very little. Your Greek "silver" coin with flanges sticking out of its edges is a bad cast counterfeit. Your cheesy-looking brass token is not gold, and is not a coin. Any clown can mint brass tokens with bad designs. Cleaning your coins is a stupid idea. Yes, even for you. You, too. If you ask how, listen to the people who tell you not to do so. If you cite Etsy as an authority, people will laugh their heads off with good reason. This is horrible for your cred. If you cite a Youtube video as an authority, people will laugh with good reason. This is bad for your cred. If you have more than three supposed error coins you found in change, and plan to post them all, the odds are overwhelming that none of them are mint errors worthy of note. If you keep posting these without seeming to learn, people might conclude that learning is not your thing. There, that rounds up the usual suspects. I'm not saying those answers are automatically always right. However, as the strongest probabilities, they should be presumed correct unless they can be proven wrong. If you have one child and something is broken in the house, not by you or your spouse, typically the child did it. If you can prove the kid innocent, fair enough; but you know the kid almost surely did it. If you argue about a "double die" at fatuous length when it's clear you don't know what one really is, you will look like the kid with soot all over him insisting he didn't really dig around in the fireplace.
Don't be that kid.
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Opinions, comments, additions, suggestions?

Looks like the daycare failed to turn on the parental controls. Surely there's some Dora the Explorer on the tv.

Looks like the daycare failed to turn on the parental controls. Surely there's some Dora the Explorer on the tv.

I knew someone would get it.

Dang vang sweet....uh, never mind.

I don't see any doubling on the photos you provided, so no.

The -script on the second image is certainly Arabic (which does not mean the language is Arabic; a number of languages are/were written in the Arabic abjad, or a variation on it). It is struck much sharper than that on the first image, and I have the better odds of making it out. The -script on the first is almost certainly Arabic as well, but I have to see it properly rotated. I realize that most numismatists don't recognize the proper orientation, so I don't mind guiding them to orient it correctly. I have a pretty fair guess in mind what it is, but I'll wait to invest energy until we get good information to work with.

The -script on the second image is certainly Arabic (which does not mean the language is Arabic; a number of languages are/were written in the Arabic abjad, or a variation on it). It is struck much sharper than that on the first image, and I have the better odds of making it out. The -script on the first is almost certainly Arabic as well, but I have to see it properly rotated. I realize that most numismatists don't recognize the proper orientation, so I don't mind guiding them to orient it correctly. I have a pretty fair guess in mind what it is, but I'll wait to invest energy until we get good information to work with.

The -script on the second image is certainly Arabic (which does not mean the language is Arabic; a number of languages are/were written in the Arabic abjad, or a variation on it). It is struck much sharper than that on the first image, and I have the better odds of making it out. The -script on the first is almost certainly Arabic as well, but I have to see it properly rotated. I realize that most numismatists don't recognize the proper orientation, so I don't mind guiding them to orient it correctly. I have a pretty fair guess in mind what it is, but I'll wait to invest energy until we get good information to work with.

For me, it's two things. Has nothing to do with the narcissists; they can be avoided/ignored. Has nothing to do with the trolls, though it's amusing watching the sexism that comes into play. An evident female can get away with a lot more around here, and they know it and take advantage of it. Don't imagine otherwise. They have enough disadvantages in our world, but the compensating advantage is that on balance there's evidence they're smarter than we are and develop a good sense for other compensating advantages. My hat's off to them for resourcefulness, but it's funny watching everyone here holding back where someone posting as CoinGod2023 and bragging about Rare Mint Errors has such a quick hook. Name themselves CoinMisti2023 and they'd get away with more (and not just because almost no women are stupid enough to use a braggarty handle like some males do).
First, the Great Mutilation of merging the US, world, and ancient forums together. This was the biggest mistake the board management ever made. It created a mega-forum that might as well just be called Coins, and made it hard to find the world and ancient stuff amidst all the dopey stuff about small dates and parking lot nickels and Real Rare Vallyouabull Mint Errers is this stamped rong can I ratier now? Bleh.
Second, the way the board logs me out every four days and requires me to relogin. Has been happening since the big migration oh, maybe a couple years back. What this means is that unless I relogin, which I only normally do when I have something to post, all my ignore settings do not kick in, which means that all of the more abominable stuff now shows right back up. I don't see what the board gains from this, but I know it loses a lot of posting from me (perhaps they are happier that way) because I look and say, "Do I care enough to go through this fake logout/new login process this board is enforcing? Why, no. No, I do not. Someone else can help them."
Between those two basically self-inflicted wounds, I just am not on as much.

Fine, you do you. Ima do me. I don't tolerate stupid. My wife and I bought two brand new 2023 vehicles this year, both full blown gasoline only models. We paid cash - no financing. One of them requires 91 octane minimum. I stay away from stupid as if it were the plague.

This coin is a great circulation find, and is likely worth more than $30 to the right buyer, but I doubt it will ever bring $300, much less $2000. Probably the most recognized name in the field of numismatic errors is collector, dealer, and authenticator Fred Weinberg. His error collection was sold by Heritage last year. In the offerings was a 1965 Special Mint Set quarter, graded SP62 by PCGS, that was rotated 180 degrees. It was slabbed in a special Fred Weinberg Collection slab. It brought $180 including the 20% buyer's fee. This was an uncirculated SMS coin with a notable provenance, and it brought less than $200. Draw your own conclusions.
Link to the auction page

You haven't hung out on my local NextDoor. They could be that stupid. They are.

One gets the feeling that your financial world is as full of fantasy and imagination as your numismatic one.

You haven't hung out on my local NextDoor. They could be that stupid. They are.

One gets the feeling that your financial world is as full of fantasy and imagination as your numismatic one.

You haven't hung out on my local NextDoor. They could be that stupid. They are.

You haven't hung out on my local NextDoor. They could be that stupid. They are.

A year and a half later they're still pushing it. They dropped the price to $800.

That last is a perfect summary of one of our greatest problems around here: People who have known a lot for so long they can no longer conceive of not knowing a lot. They can see only their own perspectives. The idea of not knowing the proper color of a penny is too alien for them to contemplate; thus, anyone who doesn't must surely be illogical, not too bright, etc. Never mind that, unlike mint errors and mechanical doubling and parking lot damage, the color issue is a little more advanced knowledge because it comes not just from seeing pennies, but examining them with a critical eye. Most people out in society have seen a lot of pennies, but few examine them. What is obvious to them, they figure, must automatically be obvious to even the rankest beginner. There is probably a philosophical or psychological term for this inability to see other perspectives, but I'm neither a psychologist nor a philosopher.
Obviously, there are degrees of this. Coin color might be at the high newbie level of understanding. Parking lot damage seems to me pretty easy to diagnose, given that most people have found a penny in a parking lot. Doubling is toward the high end of newbie. Phantom dates and lettering are toward the low, given that they seem to be triggered by a lot of reallywannaseeit (aka pareidoilia, or however it's spelled). Non-numismatic critical thinking will tend to dispose of the low-end ones, such as "I think this is a quarter struck on a nickel planchet." Research and self-education will also help, but for people to get worked up about those, they have to hang around long enough to care. Even then, not all research is created equal. That presented on YT is so consistently awful that "I researched it on YT" is like announcing "I think my proof coins look better with thumb prints."
This intellectual myopia exists in many areas. It's much like the chemistry professors forced by their jobs to teach freshman chemistry, and doing an awful and cruel job of it, because they would rather be dealing with grad students and research. It's this way with many techies: they can fix it, but if you want them to teach you how to fix it yourself, they can't because the idea of not knowing is beyond their recent experience. It's a human tendency.

The way to use graphics of varieties, in my experience, is relatively. By that I mean subtle variations in angle, direction, and distance. Let's imagine you're looking at the images ldhair posted, very helpful. What stands out the most by itself? Not the thickness; that only stands out comparatively, as in the images side by side. But look at the shaft of the 2 and compare. On the large date, it is straight. On the small date, it is more curved. So if you're just looking at pennies with a magnifying glass, you'd aim at that. If it hasn't got that curve, you can stop looking at that coin; you have your answer. In all variety hunting situations, and some others (notably authentication of frequently faked stuff), I look for a diagnostic that simply must be present.
Sometimes the variance is "the letters on this one aim directly at such and such" or "the point of the wing aims directly at the W," etc. Once you get your diagnostic right, you won't be confused any more. And yes, it's okay to do it with magnification. You don't grade with mag, but you do assess other factors.

I was thinking of heating up all their coins, then forcing them to swallow them.