World Colonial

On 2/11/2023 at 10:59 AM, JKK said:

Odds are very good, as others have said, that a couple zeroes need to come off your overall value estimate. Four figures would be pretty normal. Five would be kind of special. Six probably is not happening. Seven, well...even less likely.

I've mentioned my step-grandmother's (now deceased) collection which I viewed once, in 1975.  I went through one 10X10 SDB with her in one morning, flying through it really.  It was all in Whitman folders, boxes of 100 2X2 cardboard holders, and some of it loose.  I'd guess 5,000 to 10,000 coins, if a SDB of this size holds that many.

As a guess, I'd estimate it was worth about $50K at the time, but I didn't inventory it (she wouldn't let me and my estimate would have been wrong anyway) and she had most US series starting with capped bust (excluding dollars and gold) plus a lot of early copper, back to 1794.  Grades were from F-2 to XF, plus presumably many now "details" coins.

For the OP's reference if they are reading any responses, this is a proxy for a currently valued six figure collection.

On 2/11/2023 at 10:59 AM, JKK said:

As for unloading it, unless you have a bunch of big money stuff, your choices are private collector or dealer. Private collectors might pay more but have less deep pockets and are less likely to take it all. 

If there is a noticeable number of higher value (arbitrarily >$300), these are candidates for grading and are worth more effort to sell individually.

I don't sell much anymore but when I do, I group lower value coins into one lot.  Selling large volumes of low to very low value coins especially individually is mind-numbing tedious boredom to most people.  There is no way to avoid it though without large to massive discounting, and this assumes the quality is high enough where it's in demand.  Anything below that is basically dealer "junk bin" inventory, especially non-US.

On 2/10/2023 at 8:30 PM, VKurtB said:

The foreign pieces will be the bigger challenge, not because there are not price guides, but because the U.S. market for them is thin, and most price guides are written for their own domestic markets. Most coins need to be marked down to sell in a foreign market. I am very into British material, and when I shop in Britain, I usually have to pay more. 

I wouldn't rely on any price guide, at least for any coin of "meaningful" value.

Krause list is just "made up".  It's not based on actual sales and the only reason it bears any relation to market value is because 1) dealers use it as "retail" and collectors not knowing otherwise, pay it.  2) some collectors also use it as a reference point when determining how much to pay, not knowing any better.

On eBay, in my limited sample, I consistently see coins sit unsold listed at discounts to Krause.  Most of these are listed by US sellers but hardly always.

The last edition of the local South African price guide I own (2008 or 2010) didn't bear any relation to either Krause or actual sales either, even at the time.  It's the only one not from the US I have ever owned.  Lower priced coins presumably sell at catalog list for the same reason I gave for Krause, but all better material is more often than not, sold graded.

My assumption is that the US is primary market for most more expensive TPG coins.  I don't look as widely as I used to, but I still don't see that many graded coins in foreign auctions.  More than previously but still a distinct minority.

I'm guessing it grades a low VF now but F when you bought it.

On 2/9/2023 at 9:47 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As with most collections, 80% of the value is probably in 20% of the coins.  Could be 90% of the value in 10% of the coins.

You need to find out if any of the coins are certified/graded -- if you've seen it, you'd know right away.  Beyond that, you should look for the most popular types of gold and/or silver coins, which would have most of the $$$ values.

Report back and/or send us some pics. 

We've discussed the financial aspects of collecting most, so I'll reply to your post.

Heritage published a book covering collectibles generically.  I obtained (free?).sometime around 2006.  It discusses this topic quite extensively.

There is one anecdotal story included similar to this one.  If anyone has it, they can read the outcome.

There is no possibility of knowing the value from the OP.  From the description, it could be worth a lot or not much at all.  Large collection does not equal valuable, especially without even really knowing what's in it.

On 2/7/2023 at 5:46 PM, VKurtB said:

I can’t imagine these types of attitudes in the hallowed halls of academia in which I studied. It makes me physically ill to think of it. My alma mater was founded in 1787. 

Another example of going totally off the rails, but I will leave it at that.

On 2/6/2023 at 9:16 AM, VKurtB said:

Well, this should be expected. This is what this country has become lately. 

There must be a "safe space" for that, somewhere.  Grief counseling too.

The coin you have is severely damaged and is at most worth 10C, if anyone will even accept it.

I can't identify it, but I doubt it's a "new world" bronze coin.  To my recollection, a low number were struck in Mexico, Panama, and the Dominican Republic but I might be adding one where it's actually silver.  The ones from Panama and DR are very rare.  Mexico not common but not expensive.  These coins were struck in the early years after Spanish colonization, in the 1530's to slightly later.  There isn't one from the 1400's.

On 2/3/2023 at 10:45 PM, VKurtB said:

Another beginner “error finder” goes completely off the rails deep into a ravine where hopefully his remains will be found someday. 

Generically (not to this poster specifically), I always assume these sentiments are driven by money, not collecting.  I've seen it often enough where it defies common sense that anyone would actually believe it's either that interesting or incur grading fees.

On 2/3/2023 at 4:30 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I do not have a large coin collection. Still, I made a promise to myself that I was not going to buy coins that did not align with my collecting goals. Despite seeing many beauties at several local/regional shows this year, I walked out empty handed. This was very challenging for me, because I can be easily seduced by the neat, cool, or just beautiful coins. The money starts to burn a hole in my pocket, and I can get impulsive and start to rationalize buying coins without purpose. However, I know that even smaller purchases can push my coin goals beyond reach... so, I successfully resisted and I am glad I did.

Your description is my philosophy too, except that I am not tempted to make random impulse purchases and the primary reason I don't is the reason you gave.

I'm not rich and my primary interest requires my entire coin budget.  The vast majority of collectors don't like to collect this way, but it's the only realistic option for most to complete anything that is an outlier from what most collect.

Nice coin, by the way.  Definitely good surfaces for the type.

On 1/30/2023 at 12:19 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You'll pick it up eventually.  I've been here 10+ years (I think) and when the experts/vets go back-and-forth on "FBL" or "5 Steps" or other minute grading details, my eyes gloss over. 

I don't think you are in the minority with the type of examples you gave.  It's numismatic minutia.  There isn't any reason to believe that most collectors are interested in this type of subject.

In the examples you provided, I'd guess a few percent of both series actively buy this coinage at "full freight" (market price in a TPG holder).  The rest are "cherry picking", trying to complete their sets buying ungraded coins or arbitraging the price difference.

Not my area of collecting.

You should post your question on a coin forum with more ancient coin collectors.  I don't post there but Coin Talk is a lot more active, with a lot of ancient collectors too.  Someone might be able to answer your question there.

On 1/29/2023 at 5:33 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I wish NGC would just approximate as many of my bullion coins don't have any price when I use their app. 

We're not looking for accurate FMVs to the nearest week, just a ballpark approximation.

Pricing a bullion coin is completely different than the one in the OP.

But presumably for both, NGC would have to pay the provider for the data unless they are just going to use a potentially arbitrary premium over spot for bullion coins.  It's not something that should be expected to involve any manual effort.  

Looks like a countermark of some kind or just post mint damage to me. 

I've never heard of countermarks on ancient coinage but doesn't mean there aren't any.  Unless it's a known one, have no idea how to identify when it might have occurred either.

Best source is the Heritage Rare Coin Galleries auction archives.  I'd expect there would be many prior sales listed there, some recent.

On 1/28/2023 at 1:52 PM, VKurtB said:

!!!!  Key is a relative term. And third party grading has added another wrinkle. So have registry sets. Imagine someone who might want to put together a high grade slabbed set of something relatively mundane - like Kennedy half dollars. Yes, lots of proofs are out there, but for many dates, the regular strikes are nearly non-existent in high slabbed grades. They’re common as dirt raw, but what if you want a slabbed MS67 for your set? That could get difficult. That don’t come up for sale often. 
 

Bottom line: a key date is one thing - a coin that you want in the form you want it, that is hard to find. You can walk around a large coin show and have dealers almost yell at you, “I’m buying key dates in almost all series!” Yeah, ain’t we all, brother?

If this description is accurate of the term today, key date in recent US collecting is just more marketing, nothing else. 

On 1/27/2023 at 1:28 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Same thing with an MCMVII High Relief Saint, NN and Lcourt.

I would just add that you start with mintage...then look at survivors....then look at HIGH-GRADED survivors (top-collectors want the best coins).....and then figure in demand.  That tells you which coins are likely to be "key dates."

I think your post describes how key dates are viewed today, which is why I consider the term meaningless.

There is nothing "key" about a coin which can be bought any day of the week or on short notice for anyone who has the money.

Basically what @RWB stated, traditionally. 

At the time (up to 60's or 70's), it made sense in the context of circulating coinage, since far fewer collectors proportionately paid meaningful premiums.  This perception has survived to the current day which explains why coins which are common to very common sell for such inflated prices.  Collectors of the time didn't see it in their change, most collectors they knew (if any) probably didn't own it either, and their dealer probably usually didn't have it, so it was "rare".  In the 1970's when I started collecting, none of my regular dealers carried these key dates.  One sold more expensive coinage, but apparently, didn't cater to those who collected it.

Today, the concept of key date should be obsolete, since none of these coins are remotely hard to buy.  Neither are most of the scarcer dates in other series, except when narrowed down to some specific quality.  Using the traditional definition, some of the earlier series have a disproportionate percentage of key dates. 

In the primary coinage I collect (non-US), under the US definition, every single coin could be considered a key date, especially when considered in a specific quality, as not even one is easy to buy, except as dreck.

On 1/21/2023 at 12:35 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If you call the TPG because the coin in question costs some $$$....wouldn't someone give you some information on what caused them to grade it as such ?

I spoke to someone about a grading question once, but it was South African coins I submitted as patterns where I couldn't provide documentation to support what I claimed it to be.  I don't think I spoke to a grader, as I don't believe NGC would do that.

On 1/21/2023 at 12:35 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I wonder if they keep records (of some of the more valuable coins) and/or videotape the grading sessions.  If a heavy-hitter wants an explanation on why his $20,000 coin is now worth $5,000 because of a Details grade, if it's only a few days or weeks after the grading you'd think there would be a record, no ?

I don't consider either of those values "heavy hitters" in today's market.  No, I don't buy coins in this price range but the TPG's routinely grade coins of this value.

On 1/26/2023 at 8:36 AM, J P M said:

Not long ago someone sent in a new 2021 Morgan that was wiped before it was put in the case and left the mint. Or so it was said. It was graded as cleaned.

Not much if any equivalence.

Any 2021 Morgan where that happened deserves a "details" grade.  It's a very recently issued non-circulating.  It's also common as dirt where somewhere in the vicinity of 99%+ are actually "market acceptable" without this surface appearance.

I'd have to see the proof and Roman coins.  Depending upon what both look like, maybe one or both deserve a "details" grade, or not.  The Roman coin deserves a lot more leeway.

On 1/27/2023 at 10:53 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The simplicity of the Liberty Head obverse can grow on you after time.  And the proofs for the LH DE blow away the "proofs" for the Saint-Gaudens DEs. 

I don't recall seeing a matte proof in person but hold the same opinion.

On 1/27/2023 at 11:47 AM, zadok said:

...looks too much like the morgan dollar...in my own personal opinion, n just that, the only truly classical looking US gold coins besides some of the patterns r the ST G $10 , the $3 princess n the the 1916 gold re-issues, buff, merc, liberty...rest of our gold designs pedestrian compared to many of the other world gold issues....

Pretty much agree with your assessment.  I've always liked the Capped Head (1813-1834) half eagle type, but that's because of the 1822 when I was young.  It's actually not an attractive design.  The Turban Head (similar to the silver), somewhat better.  The earliest design obverses are actually awful, though all mediocre designs look a lot better in higher quality.

It's outside of my budget, but I don't really care for most world portrait gold coinage either, or the renditions of Liberty on Latin American coinage.

On 11/20/2022 at 12:46 PM, EagleRJO said:

For the logs I create using Microsoft Word/Excel I include columns for: year, mint, description, condition, grade, who graded it, cost/value, where I purchased/found the coin, and one for miscellaneous info. 

This is what I also do, but in my case only for my TPG inventory plus ungraded coins I specifically want to track.

I don't track most of my ungraded coins.

It has the design and dimensions of a Spanish colonial 8R.  Assuming it's genuine, it appears to be a 1711 (date is on the third row of the "tic-tac-toe") from Lima, Peru ("Lm" on top and right left squares).

First, you'll need to weigh and measure the diameter.  I don't recall the dimensions offhand.  Second, you'll need to compare the design elements to another source, as I do not remember the specifics.  With the information I gave you, you should be able to find this with a web search.

Whether it is genuine or not will almost certainly be related to how you acquired it.  It has the appearance of royal coinage which was made with extra care.  Most of the Lima 8R of this period are cobs, frequently stamped lumps of metal.

Lima royals (of any denominations) are rare or very rare.  If you didn't obtain it from a reliable source, it's almost certainly counterfeit.  You don't find these on eBay, at pawnshops, or at flea markets.