EagleRJO

Very interesting indeed, and that might very well be historically true and would fit with how I would typically use the term "slider". Thanks for sharing that little tidbit. I think if there is just enough wear to break luster on high points from "sliding" an uncirculated coin across a counter it would end up being a high AU grade coin ... at least as far as reaching the customer's pocket. After that all bets are off.

Yea, he has got some nice Roosters (the coins, not the ones that wake you up at the crack of dawn).

@Simple CollectorMaybe I just need to give the Custom set another shot and be a little more patient. Is there a good guide or FAQ for the Custom sets? It seemed like most of those I found were geared towards Competitive sets.

If you have a complete set of a certain series I would look into if there is a NGC Competive Registry Set that may either consist of or include the set you have assembled since it sounds like they are all graded. https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive/united-states/dimes/ It is more user friendly compared to a Custom Registry Set since everything is already set up and it is easier to enter coins. You can also more easily compare your set to others, let others see your set, and compete with others and get awards if that's something you may find enjoyable. I started a Custom Registry Set with a collection I am working on which is almost all raw coins (Competitve needs to be all TPG graded), and I just got frustrated with setting it up and entering coins.

Dascher, I think you are seriously overcomplicating things when you just need to look at mintage numbers and composition of coins to get an indication of rarity. From having collected older German coins the rarer ones are typically silver, often combined with a very low mintage. During periods of economic upheaval (e.g. near the end of WWI and WWII with hyperinflation) silver coins were usually hoarded and often melted down for ease of hiding or barter. There were some very clever things made out of melted silver coins to keep soldiers or others from finding people's stash. In 1888 the 20p coin was not made of silver, it was made of copper-nickel, so there wouldn't be any expected rarity from hoarding. The Munich mint (D mark) produced 1.4M of those coins, whereas the Karlsruhe mint (G mark) produced the least at 610k coins. I wouldn't consider either as having a likely rarity. So, I agree with Mike that you would NOT expect the 1888-D 20p coin to be a rare date, and there does appear to be good relative availability consistent with market price guides after doing a little more digging.

"Slider" can mean different things to different people, in different situations. It can mean a lightly circulated coin that has been cleaned and dipped in chemicals to improve its appearance, and look very shiny like a uncirculated coin. That is meant in a derogatory way when done with the intent to fool a collector. Then there is what I think is the more common usage, and how I often use the term, which is an about uncirculated coin that is a very high AU grade with only very minor issues that may not be readily apparent and could "slide" into an MS grade depending on the grader and other factors. So, I think you really have to take the context of the situation to get how the term is being used.

Idk, I think it's a cool looking minor error or deteriorated die, particularly looking at the full obverse worthy of putting it in a flip, labeling it "Sneezing Lincoln", and throwing it in a box labeled "Minors". But to vets who prolly have multiple boxes of these it's likely a ho-hum type of thing. But I do agree that it wasn't presented very well, including the cute name in the title, instead of just posting "2017-D Cent - Minor Error?" and then just mention the appearance in an offhand or humorous way. Just my two (Indian head) nickels.

I might be kinda guilty of something like that occasionally, but not intentionally as I think it's just part of being a newer member and more serious collector. I think it's pretty awesome when someone completes a collection or puts together a really nice set or adds some nice coins to that, when I am struggling to just complete one collectors set. It's probably more like ok been there done that, have the t-shirts for more experienced collectors. Or where I find someone's knowledge and willingness to be really helpful to me as well as others very impressive (even if it's a hard dose of reality). Yes, that includes you two guys and many others, but don't get a big head on me ... and I may have just pushed VKurtB"s buttons. 😜 Whereas to a more experienced collector it might seem like run of the mill stuff most should know. But not to the point of putting someone on a pedestal and constantly talking about and referencing them. So don't be surprised if I "push your buttons" sometimes.

Somebody is rockin it.

Somebody has a good amount of knowledge about half cents. Very impressive and commendable giving back on a board where one can learn quite alot. And also get help from some very knowledgeable and experienced people willing to donate their time to do that.

@DascherNo need to apologize because if you stick around you will naturally see some pot shots in good fun or sarcasm that naturally flows from discussions where there is disagreement. I have a feeling it will grade a little higher than I am thinking, but naturally take a conservative approach as then there may be the "you told me it would grade out as XX-XX and it wasn't even close with wasted money" bla, bla, bla. But my first reaction was an AU-58 slider, and one is usually right with a first impression, but with the stated caveats. Please do stick around to toss around some naturally sarcastic and humorous stuff, but what is mostly about learning about coins and maybe helping others occasionally, and provide that seller perspective that I think is missing sometimes.

Nice job @Quintus Arrius if you completed Registry Sets for Roosters both here and across the street. I don't collect them, but I understand some are really hard to find at a reasonable price. Would you mind sharing links to both so I can take a peek as it sounds like an awesome accomplishment, and I do find them interesting. 😉

Oh boy, QA doesn't even have a swing arm lamp with a Bootleg 100w bulb. [Duck]

@ldhairand @tj96from the outside looking in, it does look like you guys were both throwing rocks at each other without really knowing each other's background, which could be very on-point with the topic. I understand the passion some can have who have either been burned by a counterfeit or had to try and deal with that or possibly companies who may have some association. I think the reality is that while we can try and "Buy American" as much as possible, the sad truth is that an increasingly vast majority of products are comming from China and that's that. I suspect that ldhair had some interesting views on the topic and I was hoping he could be enticed to expand on that, but not when you guys are throwing rocks at each other. "Group Hug" and maybe move on?

As indicated before, go to the VamWorld site for an 1884-CC Morgan and first try to find a match based on the descriptions. Particularly with the date and mark It looks like a "Far Date", meaning it is set further right than the typ date. Check this by counting the number of denticles on the rim from the neck point going right to see where the lower left part of the "1" lines up radially with a denticle, and compare with the VAM examples. Next look for a match with the Mint mark, which looks a little "tilted left". If those are a match then check the other indicators for that VAM. It looks like a VAM-10/10A but check that. If not, start looking at other VAM's. Also, the chunk in the left "C" of the mark may just be a die chip, which leaves a raised area on the struck coin. If the die was worn resulting in some of that MD a chipped die would seem consistent.

I believe we will have to defer to @J P Mas it was his post quoted above which led me to believe that there was a "long lost Rooster QA needs". However, JP has been kown for pulling the proverbial leg of some occasional, so I believe we will need a clarification from JP.

@Dascher we really don't do challenges, judge people just because we might have different opinions if they are respectful like you are being, or do the "I told you so" nonsense. We just try to give people honest opinions and feedback, and try to also be respectful in return. I collect German coins also, particularly older ones with eagles (go figure with my forum name ). That coin is in pretty good shape compared to some in my collection or that I have seen around that date, and prices can be low with guides. And for older ones like that it wouldnt surprise me if there were some allowances for age with the grade. I think you are also correct on pricing that can vary greatly based on my experience with some German coins and some others around that date. It can vary considerably and you seem to have a better handle on prices. So I will acquiesce and defer to you on that. And I really do hope you stick around. Not just to update us on your submission, which is always helpful (no need to expedite), but maybe to also give feedback to some who don't have as much experience as you from a sellers perspective. Just my two (Indian head) nickels.

@Dascher sounds like you had a frustrating day on the course, and I feel you. Not long ago I got so frustrated on the back 9 with a water and sand hazzard that I tossed my whole bag in the pond. Then I realized my keys and wallet were in the bag so I had to wade in the pond to get the bag with everything in my wallet soaked. I actually think there is a good shot at an MS because a "slider" as I used it is an AU-58 right on the edge and could go either way. Hope you come back either way and we could also share some more golf war stories. 😉

@Coinbuf If I had my computer I could pull up some example AU sliders and MS coins to compare to see if there appeared to be any wear or rub marks on the high points, but I was thinking AU without that check due to what appears to be a lack of luster and why I said "might be luster". But it's not a big cost difference for that coin and may just be the pics.

@Sandonthe op may be looking for people that agree with him that if he took it from a regular mint set it should have been graded MS66 and not PR66 to use as ammunition to challenge the grading as a PR when he wants it to be graded MS, which is much more valuable and how he submitted it to PCG$. To me it was sus that he was able to come right back with PCG$ pics, but no pics of the "mint set" that he got it from as requested Unfortunately for the op there are people who are knowledgeable and know the difference on this board, so they called it out as a proof. I doubt we will see this troll anymore.

Or the Chinese counterfeits that are all over sites like eBay or Etsy. Those are vastly more detrimental to the hobby than the Dan Carr overstrikes possibly being copied. I agree with @tj96that the counterfeits coming from China really need to be stopped, and nobody should be doing business with companies to export them to the US.

I agree with Sandon that these pieces produced by the Moonlight Mint and Dan Carr should be referred to as "overstrikes" or "tokens". Concerning if these tokens violate laws related to the possible use in commerce (18 US §485) the tokens are not struck "in resemblance of" coins struck by the US mint as they have either distinctly different dates/marks and/or distinctly different designs, and they are clearly not struck with an "Intent to defraud" the average consumer. There is no shot that these tokens are either intended to be used or would actually be used in commerce as legal tender due to the design and cost of the tokens. Therefore the only thing left that can be debatable is the issue of if these tokens comply with the Hobby Protection Act (16 CFR part 304). This relates to it possibly being an "imitation numismatic item" or something which is a "reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item" and which "purports to be, but in fact in not an original numismatic item" and which would "fool the average collector". The Dan Carr tokens are struck with different dates/marks or different designs, so it's not a copy or reproduction of an actual coin struck by the US mint. Furthermore, even though some of the tokens are struck with similar designs, like the 1964-D Morgan Dollar Token (example attached of one I have) this would not "fool the average collector" who would know that the item was never struck by the US mint. However, Sandon does raise a valid point that there can be a negative effect on the hobby if either these tokens are held out for sale as real rare errors or rare coins struck by the US mint, or if these tokens are being called or are perceived to be "counterfeits" I think it would be obvious to the "average collector" that these tokens are not some kind of rare coin or error, and I am not aware of there being any problem with that. However there are some that constantly beat the counterfeit drum related to these tokens which are going to continue to be produced, and I believe that in and of itself could be detrimental to the hobby if it continues. Jusy my two (Indian head) nickels.

If you post good pics of both sides of the coin as well as pics of the mint set you cut it out of that may help in figuring that out.

@Coinbuf curious why you think it's an AU slider cause I'm just using my phone. Partial luster, color changes indicative of rub marks or minor hairlines in multiple directions? Might be luster but I can't tell from this phone.

We were kicking around just using a link to the NGC Glossary and adding to that in the thread or requesting revisions/additions from NGC. I will do the thread if you guys want me to. Also how do I contact an Admin?