EagleRJO

@MelGand @D.EWelcome to the forum. @D.EI don't think Greenstang meant his post the way you are taking it, I just think it was a simple observation that often has to be repeated ad nauseam on the forum. About error coins and how coins are made, see the following link which is an excellent ANA eLearning video about the minting process and error coins (yea, I know it's a YT vid, but it's from ANA ) ... ANA eLearning Academy - The Modern Minting Process: Errors and Varieties (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih9q3OpGhpI). There are a few sites that have good info on error coins such as: Error-Ref.com, Variety Vista Home, Wexler's Coins and Die Varieties (doubleddie.com), and CONECA (conecaonline.org) just to list a few major ones. Also, if you are really getting into error coins the real question is often "how much is that error coin worth"? There are many error coins only worth little more than the coins face value, while others could be worth a decent amount. One good source to help figure that out is a reference book "Price Guide to Mint Errors" (cover attached).

@ldhairI am still curious as to where you draw this line and why, as well as which of the Carr coins fall into each category, so let me start off by discussing what I think is borderline. To me the questionable Carr overstrikes are an exact copy of a legit coin series, but just with a different date or mint mark, for a year where there are possible indications or rumors that coins may have actually been struck. An example for one of these overstrikes is the Carr 1964-D Morgan dollar, with an example of one attached. For comparison, I also attached a legit higher grade 1904-O Morgan Dollar certified by PCG$. The reason why I say the Carr overstrike may be borderline is because the US mint considered striking that coin for 1964. Designs and master hubs for a 1964 Morgan were actually found in the vaults at the US mint. However, no working dies to actually strike coins were found and the US mint says that no 1964 Morgans were struck, not even test strikes. That coin is also not listed in any industry accepted references, like the Red Book or NGC/PCG$ guides. However, since they found actual hubs for those coins there have been rumors that maybe the US mint did strike some test coins, even though there are no records from the mint to support that. I could see a less knowledgeable collector possibly being convinced that the Carr 1964 Morgan was a rare test strike by the US mint. The real issue is would that coin "fool the average collector" under the Hobby Protection Act (16 CFR Part 304) and interpretations by federal courts. I collect Morgans, so I probably know a little more about that coin. However, I would like to hear what others think who may not collect them.

Talking about possible cleaning for those coins maybe I could get some feedback on the condition and grade of them. Attached are the coins I'm considering again. They don't look cleaned and appear legit. For the half eagle it looks XF to AU, likely AU as there is only the slightest indication of wear. For the Rooster it looks BU, or MS60 to MS62, but not Choice BU which would be MS63 to MS64, but I wasn't sure about that last part. Maybe MS62. Thoughts?

Shiny as in gold shiny, not shiny as in cleaned shiny.

Reguardless, I dont think ppl should have been kicking sand at each other in this thread. If he's staying it's plolly cause he went to a German place to have a few Weißbiers, which can calm you down and change your perspective pretty quickly. @OldhoopsterI for one am very happy you decided to stay. How were the Weißbiers?

So OldHoopster, a very experienced and respected member, starts a thread that he is leaving and people have to post garbage debating pointless things? Really? Can you go kick sand at each other elsewhere!

Generous of you to ID the variety for him. I am all caught up too with all the P, D, Proof (S) and Rev Proof (S) coins from 2018 through this year, except I'm waiting for the 2022 Rev Proof set available 11/14/22 and when my subscription for that ships out.

Simple Collector: This one was a little different as the op claimed it was MS from a "mint set" but PCG$ "miss graded" it as PR, then proceeds to post a TrueView pic of the coin showing it was in fact a (correctly graded) proof coin that did not come from a "mint set". Sandon: I agree and I hope this thread dies too.

I did find the following website for GENI, but it is only (c) 2018 on the homepage so it doesn't look like it's still operating ... https://www.numiscorner.com/products/grading-geni-2 I"m not really a fan of plastic slab coffins in general, but the proposed GENI slabs, like the attached, with the info/grade on the edge is pretty unusual.

I thought that was Ricky's call! Btw, I have never seen anything on the French coin grading system. 70 max like in the US?

Agreed at this point in time. Keep your eyes open for the possibility of a further drop and then a pivot point (well defined?) as both the economy and disposable income continue to drop, and individual credit debt rises. Supply side is fairly steady, so it's really the demand side I am watching.

There is an authentic German restaurant near me, and there are often people there having a Weißbier, with an lemon sclice of course, doing Sergeant Schultz quotes. It really is too bad that Germany is not allowed to export the exact same beers that they produce for domestic consumption due to their beer laws. The domestic beers are much stronger and taste way better. 😉

I have often found throughout my professional career dealing with some very complicated issues, and trying to convey information to others, that using less technically correct observational or descriptive terms is much more useful, as long as I am aware of the more technically correct terms and understand those.

I don't bother looking at daily or even weekly spot prices just by themselves. I look at trends for absolute values over time and try to identify low pivot points (not just price drops or spikes), based on how those values compare with historical prices and research of market indicators. That has served me very well in the past, and what I continue doing going forward. Otherwise it's just throwing darts at a spot price board hoping to get lucky, which more often than not people get burned doing.

I would recommend going to auction sites like Great Collections or Heritage Auctions to find some certified examples close to the condition of your coin as a grade comparison, and then post those as a side-by-side picture with your coin to get some feedback. Then you can learn how to do that with future coins yourself, and post additional ones where maybe you are not sure, or there is some condition or appearance you haven't seen before. The more you do that the more comfortable you will start feeling grading the coins yourself. Also keep in mind the potential for counterfeits with raw coins, but they are typically more of an issue with high value coins. Once you nail down a close grade (maybe sticking with just the adjectival grade at first), you can look up values in the NGC World Coin Price Guide like the following ... https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/canada-cent-km-28-1920-1936-cuid-1034499-duid-125778999 Also, if you plan on collecting Canadian Small Cents see this PCG$ article ... https://www.pcgs.com/news/the-rarest-canada-small-cents-and-worth

If spot prices drop a little more as our economy continues to tank (LGB), I might add the following two coins to my collection. Mostly because I really like the way they look, and not so much as an "investment". Particularly the gold half eagle with the incuse design, which I have been eyeing for a while but haven't purchased yet. However they are gold with the value somewhat tied to the spot price of that lovely metal and which if purchased at the right time could be considered a precious metals "quasi-investment". Okay, I made that last term up, but those coins are really shiny. 😜 And I have a good feeling about the prospects of where things are headed with this planned purchase because my fortune from a Chinese order the other night was ... " good luck is the result of good planning". 😀

Or try a German Weißbier which is a type of beer from southern Germany, actually Bavaria where I lived for a while to be more specific, and it is actually quite good with a lemon slice. 😉 @Oldhoopstermaybe have a Weißbier and reconsider as I would truly miss your vast amount of knowledge and experience, and your well thought out and precise posts that are always right on the money and from which I truely have learned alot.

@Coinbufthanks for the info and description. I don't collect cents other than what I encounter in change or (lately) parking lots. But it is always interesting to learn about other coins, and this "ghost doubling" which seems to be particular to cents. There doesn't seem to be universal agreement on what to call this, so maybe just include it in the category of Machine Doubling along with shelf doubling, with something that gives the appearance of doubling but from a different cause during the striking, and not the preparation of the dies [as would be the case with doubled dies, RPM, etc.] @Me4itdid you submit the coin for grading? There is a word for people who try to offer coins for sale that they think is a major error on a coin with a high grade without any proof of that, and even after they have been told by very experienced people that it is not what they think without submitting it to a TPG ... Scam Artist.

Offf, I hope it's not that bad (mine wasn't) and that you feel better soon! Btw, are you up to date with the Innovation collection (maybe I missed that)?

Yup, that is exactly correct and can be sliced out of the charts I posted. It is the standardized method of absolute value year-to-year comparison you will get from any reputable bullion guide.

@Cing There you go, pretending to be all innocent again and completely making stuff up, and that's why people are criticizing you. It just amazes me that you could possibly be that thick headed and just ignore answers to your questions people had already posted, so the natural conclusion is that you are trying to flim-flam PCG$ and people on the board for your own advantages. You already had your answer to where a #85084 comes from, but then claim PCG$ "miss graded" your mint set coin with that being the submission form box you checked, and then post a TruView pic of a proof coin. Btw, If you got the MS 1970 Jefferson Nickel from a mint set it would not be individually wrapped in cellophane, it would be part of an entire set. You could have easily posted a pic of the remainder of the set if that really was where you got it from, but of course that never happened. And even if you cut all around the nickel leaving the cellophane around that intact there would be no way to show us that after you submitted it to PCG$ as they would remove it from that and put it in a slab. If you really are not trying to flim-flam people, go back and re-read all the replies you received, 60 times or more if needed, and particularly the posts by Sandon, until it sinks in so you can post your public apology ... and then we'll talk. I am taking the under that never happens.

For those who don't know about the Registry Set that @Quintus Arriusput together with the complete 1899 to 1914 "French 20 Franks Gold Roosters" it is Ranked #1 on the PCG$ registry, and it is very nice. Since we were discussing gold coins and QA's Rooster set in this thread, I figured it would fit here sharing a link to that set so people can check it out if they want. See the following link ... PCGS Set Registry - Rooster Roster Coin Album

Yea, they are not there anymore. Just infomercials now. It was actually a Blanchard informercial I was talking about when I posted these comments ... @VKurtBmore scammers, which you know "burns my butt".

Not us, but flim flaming PCG$ or NGC with ammo from the NGC forum. Do you really think he "cut that out" of a regular mint set, or that PCG$ "mis graded" that coin? And if he got ppl to agree with the BS what do you think he was going to do?

Yea, it's not you. Q.A. can be a little ... "eccentric", trying to be humorous as a collector of French gold coins called Roosters. I don't think he knows you paid $18 for the coin, and missed a decimal place trying to do a pocket change currency conversion. 🙄 Anyway, did you submit the coin?