Dascher

On 4/12/2023 at 4:10 PM, EagleRJO said:

You may be confusing overstrikes and counterstamps.

Those would be "overstrikes", where an old coin is placed in a coining press at a mint and struck with new dies producing a different coin.

The marks you are referencing, as highlighted on the attached pic, are "counterstamps".  These are impressions added to a coin after it leaves the mint.  Counterstamps are almost always considered damage by the TPGs, with few exceptions such as chop marks on Trade Dollars.

OK, thanks, I'm with you now that I know counterstamps are an actual thing. Any idea what has been counterstampped on this coin and/or why? Or perhaps is there is a 3rd party expert Canadian source to find out more? I've looked all over to no avail.

On 4/12/2023 at 12:22 PM, Jason Abshier said:

@Dascher if you like Pfennig coinage or putting a set of pfennig together  so suggest you take look into German empire “Probe” (pattern) coins there’s some nice interesting 25 Pfennig pattern pieces that are easy to find from time to time although a little pricey but worth sending in for grading as well included a picture for reference 

These are definitely cool. I've now got 2 solid years / 200lbs / 25,000+/- cherrypicked foreign coins under my belt, and I have yet to come across one of these bad boys. Well, I've got a great 7 lbs batch coming any minute now so I'll keep my fingers crossed!

On 4/12/2023 at 1:13 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

The coin, being an 1812, means some would have been struck over Guppy half pennies and not Bristol half pennies. At least according to Numista.

Image from coinarchives.com.

 

 

@Dascher I don't know what an undamaged Nova Scotia would go for in XF condition, but most likely the value has been reduced significantly. One way to increase the value would be to identify the counterstamp, who did it, was it for a shop, what is it advertising, etc.. Of course that's assuming it is something more than an individual having fun with a punch set, even if you are able to identify it chances are the increase in value would be minimal.

Good advice, yet again, thanks. I can raise to that challenge and live with it if I can't. 

On 4/12/2023 at 12:23 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Looks like it was counterstamped/damaged. I agree with the Details grade.

This is the Bristol Half, I think. Image from Numista.

Thanks Fenn! I was completely unfamiliar with the entire concept of counterstamping, but I am beginning to think you nailed it. I guess the question now is whether and how I can maximize value out of this rare, old coin if this is the case and it is not just a "normal" circulation damage.

Hello everyone and I hope y'all had a nice holiday weekend recently. I am curious what do you see when you look at the close ups of the obverse markings on this 1812 Nova Scotia Half Penny?

Obviously it's a loaded question because I read on numista.com ( https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3194.html ) that these particular pieces were known have been struck or cast by Thomas Halliday of Birmingham, England and some specimens were struck over either "Guppy" or "Bristol" halfpennies. I sent this in for certification with the $18 Mint Errorr option because I found it hard to believe that that the exactness of these markings came from some post-minting damage but rather during a faulty mint given their clearness and obvious doubling of some sort. It just seems too inconceivable that these obverse markings are anything but a mint error.

Well, of course, the NGC graders had a different opinion and simply graded it as a damaged XF Details coin. I am not contesting the XF grading, but I am thinking about contesting this as a Details / damaged coin and not a true mint error.

What do you think?

Thanks in advance - JFD

On 4/12/2023 at 7:27 AM, Jason Abshier said:

@Dascher I haven’t been on here for awhile nice see someone else collecting some German coinage…  As a German coin collector myself . I been at it pretty much for whole 10 years , I did collect here and there in past on German coins not a lot … But I dumped my whole US coins coin collection switched over strictly pretty much German coins …. I see a lot “error” German coins , they really aren’t worth that much at all unlike US error coins that’s more of a “fad” for US coins not so much for world coins 

@Jason Abshier Excellent advice and insight. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond and it's nice to meet another foreign coin enthusiast!

On 4/11/2023 at 3:38 PM, Coinbuf said:

Awesome, thanks for stopping back with the results of your submission.

Thank you for holding my feet to the fire!

On 4/11/2023 at 5:00 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Nice @Dascher, congrats! 

Got it. It took me a while but I found the one I had in my collection and took a couple pics of it. I wish I remembered/could find this when the thread was stared, sorry about that. 

DAMN FENN!!! Yours is by far nicer than mine. Congrats!
I'm actually still waiting on mine to get shipped back to me, but as soon as it does it is going up on eBay. It'll probably take a few months to sell, but when it does I'll be happy to share all the details with you.

On 4/11/2023 at 4:28 PM, Just Bob said:

Congrats on the 63. Once again we are reminded that it is difficult to grade from pictures. I am glad I was wrong on the low side.

Don't be a stranger. 

 

 

 

 

 

Amen brother! Thanks for all of your honesty & friendship. And you are correct, I will not be a stranger. Y'all are good people!

On 4/11/2023 at 4:00 PM, EagleRJO said:

I'm glad you got the MS63, even though you thought it might grade higher, given the concerns it may be a AU slider.  Was it worth submitting with the MS63 it came back as?

Also, I'm assuming you didn't submit it for the doubling attribution with the extra fee based on the feedback you received here that it looked like shelf doubling.

Oh heck yeah! I think it was worth submitting now that it came back as an MS63, and I am very grateful for the advice you and the other faithfuls on these boards gave me not to submit it for the doubling attribution.

On 2/14/2023 at 7:31 PM, Sandon said:

  If you're not interested in this off-center cent, consider giving it to a young collector.  That will be your thanks to us.

Perfect idea!!!! But at 50 years old, I'm the youngest collector I know, so if someone could offer me a deserving soul, it shall be done!  

On 2/15/2023 at 1:55 PM, VKurtB said:

I firmly believe that VERY MANY of errors are intentionally done by Mint personnel, and also a healthy number of “varieties” as well, such as the extra stuff in the window panes on the Nebraska ATB quarters. Ditto the extra leaves on the first Wisconsin state quarters. Fully intentional

Excellent point @VKurtB. In fact, didn't the U.S. Mint admit outright that the objectvive of the entire 2020 ATB "V75" privy mark and the 2019 "W" mint mark was rekindle interest in coin collecting?
If so (& IMHO), such blatant manipulation to artificially increase interest & demand numismatically usually backfires.

On 2/15/2023 at 7:47 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

The use of "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" to inquire.

Genius

THANK YOU SIR! I was spooked I'd have been dishonorably discharged from here because of that.

On 2/15/2023 at 5:17 PM, powermad5000 said:

I see an off center broadstrike. A legitimate error coin. I agree without the date, it is worth less than a dated example, but I would not diminish the value of this error to just give the coin away. There are niche mint error collectors that specialize in/only collect error coins and the more extreme the error the more they pay for it

@powermad5000Excellent advice and well received. I appreciate you keeping focus on my original intent and offering an alternative yet voice-of-reason styled suggestion! Much appreciated

On 2/14/2023 at 7:22 PM, VKurtB said:

I’m a traditionalist - looking for ultimate condition. 

Amen to that!

On 1/23/2023 at 8:07 AM, KaileeS CS said:

Hi @Dascher, your assumption is correct. NGC currently generally only attributes varieties listed in Variety Plus. This may have been a one-off or even possibly an error in our census since the details census does not show the variety. https://www.ngccoin.com/details-census/world/switzerland-confederation/sc-301/20r/

@KaileeS CS Thank you so very much. Now this all makes perfect sense & I have an actionable gameplan I'm confident in. Much Obliged - John F. Dascher 

@EagleRJO @J P M @VKurtB @Sandon:

I focus almost exclusively on foreign coins and more importantly, y'all have been so helpful to me in the past (see below) that if any of you have a particular interest in this Lincoln error penny, it'd absolutely be my pleasure to give it to the 1st one who replies for free. Please just email or otherwise give me your address and I'll drop it in the mail today.

(... particularly on the topic back in November of doubling on my 1888 Germany 20 pfenning, which I still plan on sending in for certification pronto):

On 2/14/2023 at 8:58 AM, EagleRJO said:

I think that's a keeper off-center strike cent, but as Sandon indicated not worth that much without the date and mark.  Attached is an example 75% off-center strike 1971-D cent and the following is a link to a site with some approximate values for these errors.

https://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=925

@EagleRJO Hey, Hey my friend! Great to hear from you and thanks for these pics. Although I wonder how current a/o accurate it is, I love & frequent coinquest.com. Fascinating to me how my specimen and this one are almost identical in shape.

On 2/14/2023 at 10:06 AM, J P M said:

Thanks for fixing that . I have a couple of these and as everyone is saying it is a error. Not a great one without the date but still a keeper in my collection.

@J P M Hello bud! Thanks for chiming in with a few upbeat notes, and how very apt of you to say that because (IMHO) it looks like it would make the perfect guitar pick!

On 2/14/2023 at 9:58 AM, VKurtB said:

So a gazillion people come on here and claim, wrongly, to have an error coin. This time it’s a fully legit error coin and it’s a “goofy thing”. Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is an error coin. And it’s worth a few bucks. Read and learn. 

On 2/14/2023 at 9:58 AM, VKurtB said:

So a gazillion people come on here and claim, wrongly, to have an error coin. This time it’s a fully legit error coin and it’s a “goofy thing”. Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is an error coin. And it’s worth a few bucks. Read and learn. 

@VKurtB Hey buddy, nice to hear from you and thanks for the vote of confidence!

On 2/14/2023 at 8:35 AM, Sandon said:

    This appears from your photos to be a legitimate off-center strike of a copper-plated zinc cent of the type made since 1982.  According to Appendix A (p.1407) of the 7th (2021) edition of the Deluxe Or "Mega" Redbook, such a coin is worth all of $8.  They are preferred if the date and any mint mark show and in uncirculated condition.

@Sandon Hello & thank you very much for this great info. Next time I'm at Barnes & Noble I'll check out p. 1407 of the Mega... maybe even rent a forklift so I can buy & get it home :-) 

Hello everyone; I hope y'all are having a successful start to 2023.

What exact type of error is this strange coin I came across recently? An off-center strike, a broadstrike or neither?
And, of course, the 64 cents or 64 thousand dollar question - is it worth the time to try & sell it on eBay.

Thanks in advance for any insight - JFD

Thank you very much NickiO CS for such a prompt & thorough reply. It was helpful to some extent but I was aware of most of what you wrote. I suppose the heart of the matter resides in what is likely my misconception as to why the NGC Census per my link above shows a DDO as if it were a recognized Variety for the 1939-B Switzerland 20 Rappen but there is no listed variety in VarietyPlus or any of the sources in the link you posted. I was already aware of the difference between a true Double Die and mechanical or strike doubling thanks to the link you sent above plus the help of some of my wonderful peer members active on this forum via a previous post. I also am aware of the associated fees and would not dare ask for NGC's help on this forum to make a subjective judgement on a coin, but what I'm still getting tripped up on is why the NGC census shows a DDO for this coin that is not listed in Variety Plus. I was under the impression the NGC Census only lists known and recognized varieties exclusively included in VarietyPlus.

Is this a misinterpretation on my part, as it very well may be as a relative rookie?

Thanks - JFD   

Dear NGC: I am preparing a group of coins for certification and one of them is this 1939-B Switzerland 20 Rappen. There is clear obverse doubling in "1939" and more faint doubling in some of the letters. I checked Variety Plus as well as extensive internet research and could not find this as a recognized DDO Variety (other than, of course, non-official sources selling mostly on eBay claiming their similar 1939 Swiss 20Rs are the "DDO Variety". However, when I went to investigate the NGC census here:

https://www.ngccoin.com/census/world/switzerland-confederation/sc-301/20r/

It clearly delineates a "Double Die Obverse", albeit with only 1 in the census vs. 17 in the regular mintage. This is a bit confusing to me on what, if anything, I should do to properly submit this coin. I was under the impression that choosing the "Mint Error" option was not appropriate for more common stamp doubling, which this seems to better fit than a formal and/or recognized Double Die Obverse Variety. But if that is the case, why the delineation in the census. 

Any objective guidance or clarification you could offer would be most appreciated since I would like to make this submission before the weekend.

Thank you in advance - JFD