124Spider

On 10/25/2021 at 8:51 AM, World Colonial said:

None of the coins you have listed are rare, though US collecting uses qualifiers such as TPG label, CAC sticker, and specialization in its definition of "rarity" and "scarcity".

All Morgan dollars are common because the coins did not circulate as widely as lower denominations ($1 was a lot of money for most people at the time), the mintages were not low (no, 100,000 for the 1893-S is not "low"), and a large number were stored for decades by the government. 

A coin like the 42/41 dime isn't really "fairly rare".  It's a die variety which happens to have high demand due to inclusion in price guides, TPG registry sets, and albums.  Compared to other die varieties generally even from comparably dated US coinage, it isn't scarce.  Comparing it to generic dates isn't an equivalent comparison.

Generically, coins are relatively rare or scarce due to the mintage and the number of (roughly) contemporary collectors who saved it.  There are (and were) a large number of US and European collectors, so these coins tend to be more common.  Quality of survival is more of a random event as in the past, what passes as one or multiple point increments in TPG labels wasn't usually (if at all) important.  Similar idea at one point for mint marks and specialization.

I'm not sure about "All Morgan dollars are common."  There were only 880 1895 Morgans released by the Philadelphia mint, all proofs.  They are rare by any standard.  Add to that the fact that Morgans are a very popular series to collect, and that coin is included in all albums, and I think you end up with "rare by any standard."  And the 1893-S certainly is rare in mint state.

And I question (only on general principles) the statement "Comparing it [1942/41] to generic dates isn't an equivalent comparison."  It seems to me that a reasonable definition of "rare" for coins involves some combination of number made, survival rate and demand, independent of whether it is a "standard issue" or not.

To me, "rare" means that the date/variety/mint mark/condition I'm looking for is difficult to find anywhere.  To me, there can be condition rarity of a coin that is not "rare" in other conditions.

Mark

On 10/24/2021 at 2:34 PM, Coinbuf said:

Ten digit PCI, both the nine and ten digit cert number slabs are generally seen as well graded to even undergraded at times.   Once PCI went to the fourteen digit cert number, in this style of slab, is when they lost credibility in the marketplace.   I don't have the info with me but I believe that the fourteen digit change was done at the time the company changed hands and the grading became very loose.   A very nice key date coin in a collectable slab that could bring a modest premium just because of the slab to the right buyer, you would very likely be throwing away money by cracking that coin out.

Thank you very much; this is very helpful!

On 10/24/2021 at 2:24 PM, Coinbuf said:

***DO NOT CRACK THAT***   I hope I said that loud enough, that does not look like and ICG slab but either a PCI or Hallmark.   Can you post a reverse photo of the slab please.

My bad; yes, it's a PCI. Thanks.

But I still ask the same question.

Hi,

I made the mistake some time ago of buying a coin slabbed by ICG (we all make mistakes, and that we neither my first nor my last).  I believe that the grade is reasonably accurate, but I have since come to understand that ICG is not a quality TPG, and that the version of ICG that did this slab was horrible.

My question is simple:  Would I be better off cracking open this one, on the theory that it has more value as a raw coin than as an ICG slab (especially this version of ICG)?

Thanks.  For reference, here are the relevant photos.

On 10/24/2021 at 5:32 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Stay away from Etsy

When I'm searching for where I might buy a particular coin, the search engine always puts up a bunch of Etsy listings (rarely for the coin I'm looking for).  I'm gobsmacked by the prices people are asking for uninteresting coins, often making up out of thin air why it's a "rare" coin.  I'm talking tens of thousands of dollars.

I understand the $10 glass of lemonade story (kids selling lemonade for $10 a glass; guy says, "That's pretty expensive!" The kids answer "Yes, but we only have to sell one....").  But is anyone stupid enough to pay real money for a nothing coin?

My CC and O dollars have moved to "label created."  Interestingly, they're shipping UPS instead of USPS; I don't remember the last time they sent me something by UPS (at least last year).

On 10/24/2021 at 5:51 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Very possible, and you're correct with rising prices, but double previous selling prices for a note with a VERY small collector base, idk.  I'm going to chalk up the price increase to the "Heritage Effect",  the next time the note comes up for auction we'll see if the last sell price holds. I hope not! 

Also, of course, a peculiar effect of auctions is that it only takes two to tango.  If there were two well-heeled bidders at that particular auction, both more focused on "winning" than on the price, funny things can happen.

On 10/23/2021 at 1:28 PM, VKurtB said:

CC received. In my hand.

All my orders are still "processing."  How does it look?

On 10/23/2021 at 1:25 PM, VKurtB said:

Not getting caught up on “winning” is THE key to buying at auction. Not everyone can carry it off. “Let it go” is NOT just a Frozen song.

Agreed.  But I've generally been pretty good at deciding before I engage in an auction how much I'm willing to pay, and stepping off when it gets higher than that.

On 10/23/2021 at 12:59 PM, Walkerfan said:

The semi-key date Morgans were usually saved, in decent numbers, when compared to other series, either by collectors or by the government.  What makes them rare is the demand versus the supply, as there are a large number of Morgan collectors and not enough coins to go around.

To me, "rare" implies "difficult to find," not just expensive.  If I wanted to buy a 1916 standing Liberty quarter in XF40, I would have to look long and hard for one for sale (typically); that's "rare," to me.

OTOH, a coin like the 1889-CC Morgan dollar is quite expensive, but readily available in most any condition (short of top pop, of course).

Perhaps it's as simple as there are very few 1916 standing Liberty quarters, in absolute numbers, and, even though there are few people looking for them, the demand always outstrips the supply (because there are so few of them).  So it's "rare."  But there are lots and lots of the semi-key date Morgans, whose prices are kept up by strong demand, but there's always a ready supply because there are so many of them.  Not "rare," as I think of the term, but "expensive" because of market forces.

On 10/23/2021 at 12:29 PM, Walkerfan said:

I don’t like the chase, anymore.  You never know when the right coin will come along, so when it does, you must be prepared.  I’ve gone a year without buying a significant coin but have, also, bought multiples in a month or two.  You just never know…

Yeah, when you're talking rare coins, I agree.  Right now, I'm just chasing non-rare coins that cost a lot of money; I'm confident that they're available whenever I care to buy, and that there are enough of them that the market is fairly steady.

I have chased a few rare coins (e.g., the fairly high-grade buffalo nickel I mentioned earlier), and I do strike when I find what I'm looking for.

But I am a bit mystified as to why some very expensive coins aren't rare (e.g., semi-key date Morgan dollars), and some fairly rare coins aren't so very expensive (fairly high-grade 1942/41 Mercury dimes).

On 10/23/2021 at 11:57 AM, Walkerfan said:

Sounds great!  Glad that I was able to help.  I’m also glad that you have a good plan and have done your research.    I like Standing liberty quarters, too.  The 1916 is a great issue and I suggest that you look for one with the full head, as the price difference is only a little bit more.  Don’t worry—that coin is not on my radar, right now, so I won’t be competing with you.  😉

I'm only comfortable buying one "expensive" coin a month, so I have lots of time to do plenty of research, to know what the next target is to be.  I find, oddly, that the chase is almost as much fun as the capture.

On 10/23/2021 at 11:30 AM, Walkerfan said:

GC, HA and other major sites are VERY safe.

Hammer price is dependent on MANY factors. 

I only collect quality coins and have gotten great bargains but have, likewise, been buried, as the result of a bidding war. 

If it's a coin that you won't likely see again, then stretching for it is advisable.  

If it is EXPENSIVE but not RARE (i.e. 1909-S VDB Cent, 1938-D WLH, etc.), then I'd back off and try another example, in the future, if you feel you might be overpaying.  Do your research!!

Dealers get coins from MANY sources, not just auction sites.  

Just use your own discretion.  

Thanks; this is VERY helpful.

At this stage I'm only buying expensive, but not rare, coins (think, e.g., Morgan dollars not minted in Philadelphia or San Francisco in 1895).  Someday, I'll be looking for a 1916 Standing Liberty quarter, and I'll be more ready to overspend to get the coin I want (as I was when I bought a 1918/7-D buffalo nickel in VF35 condition--CAC approved, even--after a long search).  And, yes, I've done enough research, and recorded it, to know what each coin I'm interested in costs at various coin shops, in what condition.  So I know what I'm willing to pay.

Ok, thanks.  I'll just look at them as another reasonable way to buy coins, as long as I remember the buyer's premium, and don't get caught up in "winning" the auction.

Thanks!

FWIW, my normal proof Mt. Rushmore quarter does not have that line; neither does my silver proof Mt. Rushmore quarter.  Nor does either my P or D regular-strike versions.

OTOH, that line looks very much like the other lines in the rock.

Hi,

I have reached the stage where many of the coins I really want are expensive (to me, "expensive" means a few hundred dollars up to many thousands of dollars).  Until now, I've bought the expensive coins at reputable dealers, certified by PCGS, NGC or ANACS.

But it appears to me that auction prices are lower than retail prices (presumably because dealers get their coins at auction).

So I'm considering trying GreatCollections and the other high-end auction sites.

Is this safe (their photos aren't very good, and I like to see a good photo of an expensive coin before buying it)?  Also, are auction prices often significantly below retail prices at dealers (yes, I understand that I determine how much I'm willing to pay, by putting an upper limit on how much I bid, but I'm curious if the hammer price typically is lower)?

Thanks.

Mark

On 10/22/2021 at 8:13 PM, MorganMan said:

Another GSA Morgan!

On 10/21/2021 at 2:13 PM, Walkerfan said:

Coins from the NOLA mint can be VERY soft.  I had an MS 1885 O that was just like that. 

My guess is that the color is MUCH better in hand.  I'm guessing that it's a 64.  

Keep it going and, someday, you'll have a nice box of 20.  

Thanks for this; it's an interesting thing to learn.  I have (so far; the ones I don't have are expensive, and take time to get) 23 different years of New Orleans-struck Morgan dollars, varying (by my non-expert grading) from XF40 to MS63, with most in the mid-to-high AU grades.  Every one of them shows wear/strike characteristics on the obverse that match reasonably well with the wear/strike characteristics of the reverse. By chance, one of the better samples I have is the same year as OP's interesting coin, and I find nothing soft about its strike.

Please understand, I'm not disagreeing with you; I'm just surprised that there could be such variability in coins with only a few million struck.

On 10/21/2021 at 10:54 AM, VKurtB said:

Are we doing a CC for D swaparoo?

I have an extra "O" coming, and one fewer "CC" than I wanted.  I'd happily do a swap.

I understand that this is a "damaged die" obverse coin, so I guess it's not too surprising that the obverse isn't as pretty as the reverse.  But the obverse looks to me to be significantly worn (like, XF45 quality), not just poorly struck.

Could you perhaps explain that to me?

Thanks.

Mark

On 10/20/2021 at 7:57 PM, VKurtB said:

A great deli that far downtown? I’m kind of amazed. 

We would walk from law school on Washington Square South to the ball fields on the East River for intramural softball Friday afternoons (balls hit over the fence in center field, into the East River, were outs).  We always stopped at Katz's on the way back to Washington Square.  It's a long-time legend.

On 10/20/2021 at 3:56 PM, VKurtB said:

 

I’ve eaten at THE Carnegie Deli. It doesn’t get any better. 

Katz's Deli; same city. 

On 10/20/2021 at 9:28 AM, Mohawk said:

Mine was completely random.  We get $20 in quarters every week to do laundry because we don't have laundry hookups in our apartment.  I do look through those quarters, though, I don't just drop them into the machines sight unseen.  So I was looking through our new rolls yesterday and there is was.  It's in pretty nice condition, too.  I don't really roll hunt all that much aside from that $20 in quarters every week....too much work for too little reward.

I went through a few dozen rolls of quarters a year ago, trying to fill out my states and parks quarters albums (I did!).  Here in Seattle, coins minted in Philadelphia are relatively rare, so I asked my sister in Maryland to send me a bunch of rolls (almost of of which were P-minted).  In all those quarters, I did not find one W. But I did find all the parks and states, so it was a win.

On 10/19/2021 at 6:50 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I don't know from G.S.A.

I'm old enough to remember this, and I grew up in the DC area.  I love the "GSA Hoard" Morgan dollars!
https://coinweek.com/education/numismatic-history-the-gsa-cc-morgan-silver-dollar-coin-hoard/

On 10/19/2021 at 1:15 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Oh, let the celebrations begin!  Here and ATS they are just hoping up and down at getting their bright and shiny 'Privy Mark' bullion coins,  Don't forget to send them for Grading and Slabbing.  

It's always amusing when someone goes to the trouble to post his disdain for a product that is getting so many others excited.  I'm hoping [sic] up and down over your superiority!