Thompson2

4 hours ago, Kirt said:

That came out really well! I would stop right there; really nice coin.

Thanks.  I was pleasantly surpised with how much came off.  That date is super sharp now!

De-crudidation complete (mostly... might do better with a bit more time)...  Turned out nicely.  The crud came off for the most part. 

13 minutes ago, JKK said:

I do too. By VF-40 I mean: "Actually VF, but the typical dealer would probably put it out as EF-40." There is no grade of VF-40, of course.

Good luck de-crudulating it. Careful.

Lol...  glad I’m losing my mind too much...

And the warning is appreciated.  But distilled water and ultrasonics is as aggressive as it gets.  I did more than my fair share of unforgivable damage in my youth... still have a few floating around as reminders to never do that again.   Ha!

4 hours ago, JKK said:

VF-40 in my view. There's supposed to be at least a little mint luster remaining for EF, and I think the obverse wear is a bit heavy for that grade anyway. Some of the crudulation looks like it might be the beginning of tarnish.

That said, I love the coin. Woodgrain is always cool.

To me, 40 is pushing it.  The wear on ol’ Abe’s temple looks more 30-ish to my super calibrated, ultra trained eye.  Lol

I think the crudation (I -will- be stealing that, by the way) doesn’t look like corrosion in my pics.  Only because I don’t see any green.  Going to give it a bath in distilled water in the ultrasonic cleaner to see if I can knock it loose.  

11 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

I would leave them as is I do not see you gaining any value on the 1879-S in that grade; too common a coin worth $35-$40 at this grade so not worth spending another $35 to have it crossed.  I think the 1885-CC would drop a grade (ICG is liberal with grades imo) and while there is not a big price spread between MS64 and MS63 ($50-$75) unless you bought it real cheap between the lost value of a grade point reduction and the cost to cross you are likely to spend more than you stand to gain.  You will gain some added liquidity by changing the plastic to NGC or PCGS, but I don't see the cost offset by that liquidity, but its your dime so your choice.

Well, at $40. I did -not- get a deal on the 1879... hopefully it’s worth a bit more than that.  Where is a good place to look for values?  NGC, PCGS, and the Red Book all said I didn’t do quite that bad.  If I did, I’ll blame the wine...  

Appreciate the input on the cross.  I’ll need to figure out actual (current) market on the CC to see if a cross makes sense. According to the same 3 sources, I paid 2-6 grades lower... so i only overpaid a little?  Ha!  

But, since I like them, I’m less concerned with the current value.  Liquidity is more for “future” considerations.  

13 hours ago, Kirt said:

Looks like a woody. Lots of different opinions on why that happened but the one I see most commonly is incomplete alloy mixing. It's not unusual in wheaties - some folks seem to love it, some folks hate it.

I'm iffy on the XF for the reverse; the wheat kernels - I would like them to be more distinct but they're not and there's that issue with the tip of the left wheat stalk.

Nice pics and yes, nice coin - except for the M in America, strong strike for the year/mint!

Cool.  Never seen (nor heard of) that before, but I dig it!  Adds character to an otherwise mediocre find.    

And yes, I actually revised the numerical rating down but forgot to change it from XF to VF (corrected now).  Damn rookies! 

So in the 'rona induced boredom, I dug out an old Whitman folder I had and discovered that they weren't all the typical junk.  Okay, so it's not high grade 1909 S VDB, but it's better than a kick in the shin...  

So two questions - I put this at about a [edit]VF25/30... does this seem about right, based on these pics?  And second question - any idea on the "texture"?  It doesn't seem like damage or someone attempting to clean it (I'm thinking like a wire wheel) since there are no breaks at any of the features (like inside the letters and right up to the rim).  

On 5/21/2020 at 6:31 PM, Just Bob said:

First one is AU, and the second is a nice 63, with a shot at 64, if the tics on the cheek are not as noticeable in hand as they are in the picture. That's a die crack across the top on the reverse.

Yeah, the light wasn't in the best position and made the tics look deeper than they do in hand.  Moved the light a bit and got a better shot.

On 5/22/2020 at 6:11 AM, Terence:) said:

On a side note for the 85cc it looks like a VAM3 as well. While that may not add any more value it's just nice to know to some .... nice looking coin.

And the arc is a very prominent die crack. Perhaps jGrinz can help with that.

Good eye!  Had to look it up, but it's a match.  Shot of the die details and a close up of the mint mark

On 5/22/2020 at 11:10 AM, Conder101 said:

You will also see cracks from U to the star and through the bottom of ONE and from the R to the star to A3, and another from the wing through Am and the top of E.

It runs almost all the way around.  Crazy.  

On 5/22/2020 at 11:38 AM, Coinbuf said:

AU53 and MS63 is my call on grades.

Almost spot on!  AU53 and IMS64  You can blame it on the bad pic!   

Now a follow-on question - if I'm holding these for future value and ease of moving them (in the event of my untimely demise) should I get them reslabbed by NGC?  The 1879 is Anacs and the 1885 is IGC.  

It must have been boredom... or wine... or some combination of the two.. I didn't / don't intend to collect, but these two Morgans appealed to me on the 'bay... I'm 90% sure they're over-graded, so I figured I'd give you chuckle-heads something to chuckle at. I paid a few grades down and I like both of them, so I won't be horribly upset, regardless.  I'll post the slabbed grade in a few days.

Pics have been sized way down to get to a good file size.  I can post full size if you're really curious...

For your amusement, an 1879, Rev of '78 (guess I'm still sore about the really nice one that came back as "cleaned", lol)

And an 1885 CC

Yeah, there's a bit of rim damage by the second U in Unum, but not at the first.. that's just slab filler.  And what's up with the arc on the reverse that runs along "D States Of"?  

If it's raised, it's probably a die scratch.  I'm no expert, but a planchet (raw material) scratch would get smushed out of existence in the stamping process.

21 hours ago, VKurtB said:

And I'm pleased you're pleased. Also really. Sometimes the relentless sameness here gets under my skin a little. Okay, a LOT!

Yup.  Hearing the same question over... and over... and over... etc, can wear on you... until you realize that it only means that there are a LOT more new people who may take an interest in this...   

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Highly.

I found only references to gold-finished versions of these... did I miss an aluminum / silvery alloy somewhere? 

7 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Aimee,

I think you deserve to know why you don't see these very often, even though they are fairly recent, and so many were made. They have been heavily "hoarded", or "set aside" by nearly every 
coin person in the whole country. Roll after roll after roll, simply sitting in boxes somewhere in coin collectors' "stuff".

I'm so proud of you Kurt!  (really)

7 hours ago, Greenstang said:

I know that mine changes every 100 posts. I guess "Talkative" is the next one to look forward to.

I hate to break it to you... you're already there...

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

On my monitor, those first two pictures make the coin look like lead gray. Does it really look like that?

It's not just his monitor.  It looks like oxidized aluminum to me... and considering that I'm pretty sure that's supposed to have a gold finish to it, I think the value is exactly $1.  Unless it's a fake.... which would be weird for a coin like that.

10 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

With this, you "win the Internet" for the night. Well said. I have no animus for those led "down the garden path". They can only be victims. It is those who CREATED these new collectors' misperceptions, IF they have them, that get me upset.

So first, I'm gonna go do a happy dance where no one can see me..  

Second, most of the people coming here to ask questions have been started down the garden path by some fast talking nimrod on youtube or some other internet forum, so there should be no ire directed at them here, pretty much no matter how vehemently they insist that the road rash penny they've got is worth a fortune.  It's pretty easy to derail that train of though by simply suggesting they have it graded by one of the big three.  Should they refuse that, it's likely they don't fully believe what they've got is, in fact, what they are purporting it to be and will balk at being called out on it.

It's the people who are feeding incorrect information to those asking the questions who are the problem.  And on this site I've not seen anyone doing that who wasn't immediately corrected by 3 or 4 other contributors. 

I'm pretty sure that 99.99% of the people here agree that misinformation about collecting and falsely inflating the value of certain attributes needs to be stomped out... quickly.  But I think you'd find a similar number who find no issue with collecting errors / flaws / defects if the collector realizes that there are only a tiny percentage of those are truly valuable.  I don't think that the people who are looking for the smallest errors are thinking that it's going to turn a $5 coin into a $5000 coin.  They're in it for the hunt and, again, the fun.  

I appreciate your zeal for the hobby, but I think (at least most of the time) your frustration is misdirected here.  

And, for the record, I've enjoyed this conversation.  It had the potential to turn really petty and ugly.  I appreciate having an open, intelligent conversation about something we disagree on (pretty sure THAT's part of the Socratic method.  ) 

Just now, VKurtB said:

Now I think you're onto where my problem lies. "So if it's fun for someone to collect things that aren't "mainstream", who cares?" I assumed that those who are doing it care. Maybe I shouldn't have. If it's just a pastime, fine. But some seem to be thinking it's a path to riches, and I'm sorry, but that's just a baldfaced lie.

Maybe they only care that it's fun.  As your award also says, it's a HOBBY.  Some people get WAY more into a hobby than others.  Nothing wrong with that.  Nothing wrong with dabbling either.  Whatever brings the FUN to the HOBBY.  I think losing the fun and taking it all so seriously is sad... with all things we used to enjoy, not just this.

And yes, there are those who only want to get into it a path to low effort, high reward riches.  Nothing to be done for that.  You'll never convince them otherwise.  If they press that path, you can point out the frivolity of it, but it'll likely be fruitless if that's the only reason they're here.  But a lot of the people who pop in here with the one-off coins aren't THOSE people.  They simply found something of interest and are wondering if they got lucky.  Nothing more.  I recognize that there are (loud, obnoxious, insanely annoying) trolls who are trying to convince you that they're trying to get rich.. .but they're only trying to annoy you.

Mostly, I think, you'll find the people who come here fresh are genuine and should be treated as though they are... should they show other colors, feel free to bash... 

8 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Read it for yourself:

 

Yup.  I was correct.  I think that how you present yourself here runs 100% contrary to "your passion for sharing the FUN of the numismatic hobby with clubs, COLLECTORS and the NON-COLLECTING general public of all ages"  

FUN should be a part of this... it says it RIGHT THERE.  So if it's fun for someone to collect things that aren't "mainstream", who cares?

I still don't see why you think it's so horrible... My grandmother collected pressed flowers... made her happy.  Worth anything?  Nope.  Of interest to anyone else?  Not really.  Hurting anyone? Nope.  

17 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

I have never even set up an eBay selling system. I VERY seldom BUY on eBay, and I wouldn't even begin to know how to be a seller there. It seems like a whole lot of trouble I'm not interested in.

I assumed that was the case, which was why I offered multiple alternatives.  

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I feel kinda bad about directing this at YOU in particular, @Thompson2, but I need to show you a picture.

 

I got this box of coins as PART of a bulk lot at an auction about 7 years ago. Aside from making a label for the box and sticking it away, I've never even looked at the coins in it. SOMEBODY spent a HUGE amount of time putting it together and it could not possibly interest me less. I'd actually like give it a home where it can be loved. But how to do it fairly is the problem for me.

 

The "other tragedy" is that this box was a "throw away" part of a bulk lot that I got really cheap. Again, the fact that somebody carefully assembled it is truly a sad thing, given its fate.

 

The "first coin" is a 1914 in G-4 with a lamination and the last is a 1958 in MS-62ish with a die crack, both based on what the original owner wrote on the 2x2, and I couldn't care less.

 

Unless I stumble across a brilliant way to offload it, I guess I've been saving it for part of my stock when I become a part-time dealer to supplement my income when I retire.

I'm perplexed as to why you would feel bad about that.  A box of errors that will likely languish in perpetuity doesn't bother me in the slightest.  It's not something that have or ever had a chance to own (unlike the bag of wheats my MIL cashed in at the bank)  I think it'd be interesting to go through.  

You come across as disingenuous when you say you'd like to find a home where it can be loved.  If you did, it'd already be gone.  You have basically nothing into it, so any method you chose to move it along would turn a profit for you or bring some joy to someone.  --> And the fact that you kept it and didn't just move it along says to me that you see there is value in it, whether you like that "out of phase" portion of the community or not.  

If you're looking for a way to get it out of your way, you could very easily throw it up on eBay.  People go nuts for "unsearched" lots of pennies.  The fact that they're errors would only add to the mystery.  I think you'd do well.

If that's not an option, you could post it here for some fairly ridiculous amount and take the highest best offer.  

You could start a thread and have people guess a number.  Send it to the person who guesses closest to what you're thinking.  

Raffle them off at one of the conferences.

There's a million ways... 

And again - the fact that you kept it and didn't just move it along says to me that you see there is value in it, whether you like that "out of phase" portion of the community or not.  

2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Good for you. I have always been a "read like a fiend first" (in books, not websites, at a public library at first) type of guy. It has always worked for me, in academia AND in my career. I really have ONLY one interest here - to spread true information. Whether people like what I have to say, or not, or like the WAY I say it, or not, is NOT my concern. I'm the "tough love" section.

 

Incidentally, I DO serve the hobby at large. I work my TAIL off at every ANA convention. Use my vacation time to do it. Former ANA President Walt Ostromecki awarded me his "Numismatic Point of Light" Award for my efforts to build the hobby. NO ONE is serving the new collector by ignoring the fact that they're going "out of phase" with the rest of the hobby. Some tough love is badly needed. Do I eschew the prevailing "Internet culture"? Yes, I plead guilty. I dislike it to an extreme extent you can scarcely imagine. If you knew how I REALLY feel about the ethos of the Internet, you'd realize how well I'm holding it together on here. I'm quite serious.

 

SOMEBODY needs to stand up and "call BS" on what the 'net has done to the hobby. I guess it's just my turn to step up.

And good for you.  I've worked around both kinds of people and there are advantages and short comings to both.

I'm curious what the criteria for "point of light:" is.  Seems like your work here might be contrary to that...  And I have no doubt you work hard at the conventions... full of like minded people... who already agree with your position.

And the small portion of people "out of phase" are 1) not harming the hobby and are 2) possibly the "next phase".  Things change and evolve all the time.  I really don't see the advantage of mindfully excluding a portion of the community.

When it's lower and squared off like that, it's typically mechanical doubling.  Adds character, but not value.

4 hours ago, VKurtB said:

No, no, no! You misunderstand me! I virtually NEVER buy online NOR at a coin shop. Virtually EVERY coin I buy, other than direct sales from a Mint, comes from one of two sources - the "show circuit", which is the lesser source, or old-fashioned in-person-only live bidding "show me your driver's license and I'll give you a bidder number" actual down home auctions, which are in such overwhelming abundance near me that I can't even begin to get to them all. THAT is where I do the VAST majority of my buying.

 

By  the way, sir, I'm 64 years old and I've been doing fairly serious numismatics pretty consistently since 1963. Yup, I started at age 8. And never once in all those years had I ever even HEARD OF anyone getting all excited by obviously damaged coins (not you, others here) until the Internet generation came along. It CAN'T just be a coincidence. There HAS TO BE somewhere that we failed the newbies. Where DO we go to fix that???

For someone with knowledge and a good eye, that's a great option.  For someone starting out, not so much.  

It's great that you've got all of those years of experience.  Hopefully you can share some of what you've learned over the years.  

And no, it's not a coincidence.  Information and misinformation spread much faster in this world.  As such, it's your duty when you're on a beginner's forum like this, to spread the correct information.   I'd bet that if you worked on your delivery you'd find that explaining to people why you prefer the higher grade coins instead of *spooning* all over their interest, you'd have better luck. 

There's nothing wrong with people wanting to collect error coins.  I personally like things that are "different", so they appeal to me (not enough to convince me to go roll hunting though).  As far as people hoping their road-rashed coin is some sort of super valuable variety - that's an education thing.  There are trolls (as you've found) who will insist every mangled coin is worth a fortune, but mostly it's people hoping it's their lucky day.   There's no reason to be rude.  If you'd spent time on any forum covering any topic, there are always people on both ends of the spectrum.  In the better communities, those on your end of the spectrum take the opportunity to nurture the hobby.  In the worst, as soon as a person show up with a "dumb" question, they immediately get pounced on and never return.  

Seems like you'd want the hobby to continue even after you're gone, so I'd challenge you to think about how you present your opinions to people who have genuine interest.  Not everyone will want to deep-dive into the hobby the first time they find something cool, so please don't expect that they will do read a ton of books or do a bunch of research before posting a question here.  And no one - not even you - burst into the world as an numismatic encyclopedia and many people (including myself) learn by interacting with people first.

19 hours ago, Just Bob said:

You have just been caught in a lie. You had almost no credibility before this post, and now you have absolutely ZERO credibility.

And, what is really sad, is that you could have been a decent numismatist, if you had just taken it upon yourself to learn about coins, rather than try to impress people. Now, no one will believe anything you say on this forum in the future.

Pretty sure that happened about 30 fuzzy pictures ago. 

Yup.  It's worth $0.25.  That's just discoloration from being out in the world. 

For future reference, pictures of the front ad back are appreciated when asking about a coin.  In this case, maybe not so critical but ya never know. 

Cheers!