Thompson2

5 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Thompson,

Thank you so much for that in-depth information! I really appreciate it greatly.  I'll keep an eye on the physical sciences department at the college where I adjunct when I go back to being active after I finish my dissertation....I may be able to find one that they want to discard as it sounds like something that they may have.  I guess I'll have to start making some friends with some Chemistry professors!  I'll also keep an eye out for lab sales as well.  My sister knows people that work in labs from her college days, so I'll pick her brain about this, too.  She may be able to put me onto a few leads, now that I have the info you provided  

Good to know about the de-ionized water as well!  The last thing I'd want to do is throw an 1,800 year old sestertius in there and annihilate it!  If you do undertake the experiment, please let us know what the de-ionized water actually does to a modern cent.  If I may make a recommendation, I think it'd be neat to try the experiment on both a pre-1982 copper cent and a post-1982 zinc cent. 

Thank you again so very much for taking the time to post this and answer my questions with such excellent information.  I really appreciate it a ton

~Tom

Excellent!  After I posted, I worried that the best sources might be unavailable to you.  Mine had a bad heater that I was able to source from the manufacturer and install myself.  And if you have a small unit, you can just start with hot water in the reservoir and forego the heater completely.   

You read my mind on the potential “victims” of the experiment.  I have a feeling the zinc will go even faster than the copper.  And depending upon how dramatic the results are with the pennies, I may try a clad and maybe a nickel.

And really, this is a very minor contribution to a large, generous community.

5 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

If you do that experiment, be sure and document it with pictures. I would be interested in seeing those.

Oh heck yeah!  I’m hoping for Swiss cheese!  Lol

Well said, TON.  And as a newbie here, I too value their input and really appreciate the thoughtfulness they put into their replies.  I have found on many sites that knowledge and thoughtfulness in replies are often inversely related - the people with the most knowledge tend to be -ish and clique-ish with their replies.  

So I’ll echo TON’s praise and thanks.

On 7/5/2019 at 5:25 PM, Mohawk said:

Though I haven't gotten any really crusty ancients yet, I may have to explore the ultrasonic option if that day ever comes......and it likely will.  Where would I go about looking into such a thing?  I have no idea where to even start.  Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated!

I got lucky with mine.  It was in need of repair and past its usable life at my office, so I was able to get it gratis, not including repair parts,  

I think for most coins, more power would be better.  The exception would of course be something that is being held together predominantly by the crudation and/or heavy corrosion.

Unless you’re doing a metric -ton of coins, smaller might be useful.  The one I’ve got is 8 quarts, I think, and is a pain for just coins.  Fortunately, I have a variety of items that need larger capacity. 

A few options that I like are:

- heaters - Nice to keep the solution (if you’re using something more than distilled water) hot.  Makes it more efficient.

- timer - so you don’t have to baby sit it.  Probably not necessary for coins, but I like to not having to worry about leaving it actively running.   The transducers have a lifespan... longer than you’ll probably ever need, but no reason to stress them unnecessarily 

- basket(s) - I probably wouldn’t put a nice coin straight into a basket, but they’re nice to keep stuff off the bottom of the reservoir.  Sometime I put something in that is to heavy to float just from the air in the ziplock 

- variable power - in case you have some more delicate pieces.

Industrial / lab surplus sales can be a good source for non-crappy units.

A word of caution - you may run across and be tempted by “de-ionized” water.  It sounds super cool and super pure.   Don’t use it.  It will actively dissolve your coins, copper in particular.  I may grab some from work and dunk a penny in it.  I’ve seen it destroy equipment, but I’ve never tried to quantify it with an experiment. Should be fun.

Not sure if this got overlooked, but I’m hoping to get a response in the next few days because I’d like to send a batch in.

thanks!

On 6/27/2019 at 1:27 PM, Thompson2 said:

Two follow up questions as I'm filling in the submission forms.

- I have a Morgan silver dollar that is an 1879 Rev 78, but I don't see a way to indicate that on the form.  I'm not looking for a specific VAM to be indicated, just this (snip from price guide):

                                  

- Can multiple submissions be shipped together to NGC?  If so, what's the preferred method for keeping them separated?   And I'm assuming USPS is the preferred submission method since the address is a PO box...

Thanks!

 

It’s only $10 to reholder it.   Well, plus shipping and handling... 

On 7/4/2019 at 2:56 PM, Mohawk said:

Wow Thompson....that's bad.  It's every bit as bad as I thought it would be.  Those coins are absolutely destroyed. 

 

The ultrasonic cleaner, on the other hand......that looks like it did a great job of battling the crudulation.  That was one of the coins you found under the stump, right?

Yeah.... I’m soooooo glad I never got my hands on anything “real”.  Can you imagine a 1928 Peace dollar subjected to the same horror?

And yes, that’s one of the coins I found buried under the tree.  I could see ultrasonics working wonders on ancients.  And combine it with something that you already use to clean the surface and I think you’d be surprised.  No stiff brushes or needles required in most cases.  Cheapie cleaners might not move a lot, but if you can find a cheap industrial unit, that’s the way to go.

4 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Thompson,

That's interesting to read......do you have any photos of any coins you have cleaned in that way?  I'd be very interested to see the results if you do.

Unfortunately I wasn't smart enough to take before pics, but there was just some crudation on these and some minor active oxidation.  They're also fairly heavily textured.  But this is how they looked after getting all shook up... details came out that weren't visible before, finish seemed more even... I'd be happy to run some coins for you if you had some that might benefit.

7 hours ago, Thompson2 said:

Somewhere I have some coins that I subjected to that madness many, many years ago.  A few pennies and some clad coins... fortunately, nothing of any value.  I'll see if I can find them and take some pics of the horror that they've become... lots of white on the silver portions, corrosion on the edges... I can blame it on youthful ignorance, but it's put me solidly in the "no way in hell" camp on this one now...

4 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Those results sound pretty much like what I was picturing with that vinegar/salt solution (chemical solution...that cleaning method is not a solution to anything!)......that seems like it would just annihilate almost any coin subjected to it.  Photos of that would be good as well so people can see what that really does to coins.  I have to be honest.....I've never done it, but I cringed immediately when I read that vinegar/salt method.

Remember... you asked for it... A quarter, half dollar and penny.  The penny to me is the most interesting (even though it's ruined).  Look closely at the fields and you can see what I believe is the grain structure of the metal.  The vinegar (maybe lemon juice) preferentially etched the boundaries of the grains.

And keep in mind these coins (with the exception of the penny) were fairly new, circulated condition, not beat to hell from 100 years of abuse...

You've been warned...

You can still turn around...

Last chance...

Don't say I didn't warn ya...

4 hours ago, Reme84 said:

What about the 1/4 cup of vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt method? Has anyone tried that or is that not a good method?

Somewhere I have some coins that I subjected to that madness many, many years ago.  A few pennies and some clad coins... fortunately, nothing of any value.  I'll see if I can find them and take some pics of the horror that they've become... lots of white on the silver portions, corrosion on the edges... I can blame it on youthful ignorance, but it's put me solidly in the "no way in hell" camp on this one now...

Since there's all this chatter about "conservation" - one thing I've tried recently with dirty coins (literally.. dug them out of the yard) was distilled water in an ultrasonic cleaner.  I use a small zip lock, fill it about half way with distilled water then float it in the main bath.  Seems to get the debris off of it and I can't picture a way in which it would harm a coin... but I've been wrong before.. more than one... today... 

6 minutes ago, Greenstang said:

How do you know that is the coin you would get? It doesn't show the front of the holder with the certification number nor does it show the coin. Also those Gold Buffalos usually sell for around $2000.00, well above spot.

Do you have a clear picture of the front and back of the coin? Also I'm not sure you can take a reading through a capsule bit I'm not too knowledgable in that area.

I do have pics of front / back of the coin in the case and NGC cert number.  Got lazy and didn't bother to include them... but here they are..  I removed the cert number since I don't know what the etiquette is for that...  

I blame you guys/gals, but I'm looking at a $50 gold buffalo that's being offered a few bucks over melt.  In the pics the details look a little lacking (they're not the greatest pics), but the seller shows it sitting on a PMV Pro in the capsule and it's showing it's good.  There are two things that are kind of odd about the measurements are that the weight is 1.00OzT (in the capsule) and the thickness is under 2mm, but I *think* it's supposed to be much closer to 3..

It's in an NGC capsule and the ID matches the coin description...

So - can the PMV Pro measure reliably through the capsules and how hard is it to fake them out?  Screen clip of the shot the guy sent me.

That's pretty odd.  I downloaded two and they both have numbers on them (top right corner, starting on page 3).

And you're *supposed* to write the invoice number and line number on an insert in the flip with each coin.  At least that what the instructions say... Since I've not submitted before, I've been going over them pretty carefully so I don't screw anything up. 

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 8:35 PM, CRAWTOMATIC said:

Looks like basic html to me.  "About", "Coin Grading", "Submit", and "Resources" being <span> commands rather than a straight link to the other site.

Would it help you if I copy & paste all the linked pages from the <span> menus so you could set bookmarks to the pages you prefer?  Probably not easier than jumping over to IE but if you're like me then the harder way to do things is always more fun.  Plus I'd rather use Netscape at this point than any microsoft browser.

I'd rather not have to resort to that (although my two favorite tools *are* brute force and ignorance...lol).  I'll try the site on a different computer.  It's likely just a weird setting on this one...  And if I do go the BF&E route, I can pull that from the source.  Somehow I thought it'd be a bit more complex that that.... but then again, html isn't my strong suit...

Two follow up questions as I'm filling in the submission forms.

- I have a Morgan silver dollar that is an 1879 Rev 78, but I don't see a way to indicate that on the form.  I'm not looking for a specific VAM to be indicated, just this (snip from price guide):

- Can multiple submissions be shipped together to NGC?  If so, what's the preferred method for keeping them separated?   And I'm assuming USPS is the preferred submission method since the address is a PO box...

Thanks!

11 hours ago, JKK said:

They're both Japanese. Neither is worth much, but they are interesting. Second is a C#8, I think, 4 mon, circa 1863-67. High book might be $2. First is (I think) mid-1700s, 1 mon, C#1.something, and most likely not worth a lot either. However, there are a few variants that are worth a bit more.

Cool.  Somehow I figured they'd be of limited value but definitely interesting especially given where I found them... With the info you've given, I should be able to find out more and see some good examples. 

One question - the C#'s you give - what is that referring to? 

13 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Dang Thompson....cool find for being under a stump!  And, speaking of which, you've stumped me with those......I do not know anything about East Asian cast coinage other than recognizing it as East Asian cast coinage.  If I were to dig up a stump, I'd probably find something putrid that a raven or a crow stashed there and ended up not needing.  And I'd probably manage to hit myself in the face with said putrid thing.  I love birds, but they don't always love me back.

Oh, they love you plenty.  They just have peculiar ways of showing it.  I've been "blessed" with a gift from above on more than one occasion...

21 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

That won't work. He is the boss.

Then it should *totally* work.... right?

Do I get points for trying? 

Really.  No, really.  My wife reminded of these little gems. I found them under a stump that I dug out of my back yard. Have no idea how they came to be there, but I'm glad I didn't just grind the stump out.    There were also two pretty cool plastic toy coins as well, but I'm pretty sure those are just fun to look at. 

I think at least one is a Japanese coin, but I don't know for sure.   Any help on identification and (very rough) valuation would be awesome!

Coin 1

Coin 2 (4 Mon?)

3 minutes ago, jgrinz said:

Nice pic and yeah that looks better :-) - Told ya it was work  hehe

 

Take the rest of the week off.  Tell your boss I said it was okay.  😁

19 minutes ago, jgrinz said:

Peace I have no clue but the Morgan I can see a MS62 even with all the cheeky action.

My eye keeps on moving to the date though - it just doesn't seem right … Long day at work maybe  :-)

Good Luck on your submission

Considering where this was stashed, I'm putting the odds of it being a fake at pretty low (certainly not zero since I didn't pick it up new from the bank).  When did they start making fakes for these?  This one hadn't seen the light of day for at least 40 years...

I did notice there's some minor doubling on the 7 and it's not 100% in focus.. maybe that's what's making it look odd?

Excellent.  Thanks for the details.

14 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Sorry about the late reply.  My in-laws needed our help with something, so I apologize.

Yeah!  You should be.  Where are your priorities???  I mean, helping family and making some random guy on the interweb wait four whole hours???  Sheesh!  

Absolutely no apology needed.  This is certainly not urgent and any help is appreciated (except for sending me off down a historical rabbit hole... lol).   When these come back, I'll post up NGCs pics since they are likely to be ever so slightly superior to mine. 

Thanks again!

Haven't upgraded my membership yet, but will be doing so shortly.  I figured I'd ask this stuff before I get too far into  (probably to be told it's all self explanatory after... :D)

- If I underestimate the grade of a coin and it ends up being worth significantly more than initially thought, can the value be adjusted so it's insured for the proper amount for return shipment?

- Do all coins in a submission have to be under the same Tier (likely Standard vs. Economy based on assumed coin values)?  Or would they need to be submitted separately?

- Same question, except with Internet Imaging and NGC Photo Vision

- Are all coins on a submission returned at the same time?

Thanks!

Does anyone know what the code is behind the drop downs?  Maybe it's just a setting on my system but it'd be easier to find (rather than just enabling a bunch of stuff) if I know what's driving those. 

Thanks!