Thompson2

They're all copper alloy before 1982 (1943 zinc coated steel is the exception).   1982 was a transition year so they could be copper or copper plated zinc.  1983 and later, they're all copper plated zinc.

On 8/22/2019 at 12:06 PM, VKurtB said:

I wish I had some current advice for you here, but what you're asking is a "moving target". I have heard several "rules of thumb" for valuing Details coins over the last several decades, but none seem to stick very well. About 20 years ago, the advice was "take it down about 10 points" from the otherwise normal numeric equivalent grade, but even that has pretty much failed to hold. They really are a separate category now. The rules really don't apply, now that a very healthy percentage of Morgans are in graded plastic.

That's what I was afraid of...  The point of slabbing these was to avoid as much ambiguity over their value as possible.  Looks like it'd make more sense in this case to move them along.

On 8/22/2019 at 12:06 PM, VKurtB said:

 have about 30 that I believe are full MS coins that I've kept in "raw" state because they're just kind of typical coins. I never slab "ordinary" coins. If we've actually gotten to the point where only the slabbed can actually sell, there are going to be MANY unhappy collectors. 

Yeah, slabbing coins that don't pull in much above melt makes no sense under all but a few circumstances.  For most anything that can bring a premium, it makes sense for what I'm trying to do.  

On 8/22/2019 at 12:06 PM, VKurtB said:

 I thank goodness that where I live and trade, raw coins are still in abundance. I never buy or sell online. Jus' sayin'.

 

It's good to have a nice shop you can use as a resource if you're collecting.  Buying / selling online doesn't really apply here since these weren't purchased.

On 8/22/2019 at 12:06 PM, VKurtB said:

By the way, you DID post this in the newbie section, so I believe my assumption might have been justified.

Yes I did.  But assuming that just because someone is just starting out in a hobby doesn't mean they are decades your junior.  And even if they are, condescension is still unappreciated and pretty much universally unnecessary.  

4 hours ago, Matt_dac said:

In my opinion, melt, unless a key date in the series.  Details coins are generally a tough sell at any price. 

The first time I bought a raw gold coin it too came back as cleaned.  I only buy graded coins except for late 1700's copper now. 

 

Good luck with the process.

There's one that is a key date and that's the one I'm most concerned with (1879 Rev of 78).  The others I sent in mostly so they could fetch more than melt in the future.  

25 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Be patient. Knowing these things now can hurt. (I feel like Rafiki consoling Simba here.)

Wow.  Had you left out the Lion King reference, you'd have been okay...  Assuming that the person you're addressing is some "young cub" and implying that you're the wise and knowing adviser makes you sound like a condescending *spoon*.

27 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Try to think of what you've learned as "tuition". Study straight graded coins of the same dates as yours and be sure you understand the difference. If you accomplish that, this will have been money well spent.

 I realize now that my initial statement led people to believe that I might be starting into collecting, but that is not the case.  You advice here is solid for the budding numismatist and well presented.

I sent these in to be graded so that, should my wife have to liquidate these without my assistance, she wouldn't get screwed by some shady coin shop offering her melt for a key date Morgan.  Since they came back as Details, I need an alternate way to valuate them.  Any guidance in that direction would be greatly appreciated.

So my first foray into grading was almost a complete bust.  The high hopes I had for my Morgans were dashed with one simple word - Cleaned... 

Now that they're tagged this way, how do I figure out a rough value for them?  It was supposed to be easy, just in case someone else had to sell them (which is why I had them graded in the first place).  

With straight MS grades, it's easy to get a ballpark value, but I can't (probably for good reason) find anything similar for UNC Details.  It's even tough trying to use ePay as a resource.

Any pointers?

You should absolutely send those in for grading.  I can't wait to see how they grade.

What are we looking at?  And can you get some better pics?  Those are pretty far out of focus.

Well, I had a bit better luck with the pennies than the silver dollars I sent it.  

The 1911 S came back as an XF45BN, well above where I would have put it.

All of the Morgans I sent in came back Cleaned...  

I had pretty much zero luck with any of the silver dollars I submitted... this one also came back as UNC Details / Cleaned (as did the rest of the Morgans I submitted - 1879/Rev 78, 1882, 1882S).    To say I'm bummed would be an understatement... 

And what's up with the holdered pics on NGC?  They look like *spoon* compared to what the coin actually looks like.  Seems like they should more closely match in-hand... 

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4740268-001/60/

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4740268-002/60/

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4740268-003/60/

Well, the results are in... more than a little disappointing... 

The 1928 came in as MS62 which was pretty much in line with what I was expecting (https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4740263-002/62/)

The 1879 came in as Cleaned Obverse / UNC Details... wah wah waaaaahhhhh.... .  The holdered pics look awful, which is weird because the unholdered pics they sent me looked really good... https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4740263-001/60/, versus 

So how do I go about figuring value on this one now?  Looks like maybe $200 instead of $900? 

Thanks for the follow up Lisa. 

2 hours ago, Lwhitener74 said:

This does not look like damage. 

Pretty sure that's a combination of extensive wear combined with lighting.  The wear is giving you a hard edge into the recessed area instead of a smooth transition, making it look like there's something there.  But you can always send it in for evaluation.  Maybe they'll see it differently that the people here.

55 minutes ago, Lwhitener74 said:

I agree the nickel is not in the best of shape but how would you explain the 6 that is on the neck that is not from being damaged.

Where are you seeing a 6?  I don't see anything that I can convince myself looks like anything other than dings and scratches... And I don't think there's anything in the minting process that would randomly put a feature on a coin..

I think I'm reading this right, but I wanted to make sure.  In order to request coins below a minimum grade not be slabbed, one must be an Elite member and submit a minimum of 100 coins at a time that are of the same type? 

Or have I misinterpreted something along the way?

Thanks!

19 hours ago, Just Bob said:

The profanity filter removes all words deemed to be offensive by the moderators. Years ago, it substituted the word *spoon* for the offending word. That is why you sometimes see posters using that word, instead of something that might not pass the censors.

That's awesome!  And cleared up my *spoon* confusion...   

3 hours ago, Thompson2 said:

So any acid will etch the surface of the coin.  Ketchup typically has vinegar in it, so if you're really wanting to go that route just us straight vinegar, diluted a lot.  A word of caution on the vinegar - coins treated that way look great... for a very short time.  Then they tend to corrode worse than they were before.  And you have to be very, very thorough about rinsing. 

I've has reasonable luck with a *good* ultrasonic cleaner and distilled water.  The little -tastic plastic ones won't budge the stuck on stuff.  If that doesn't do the job, add a touch of vinegar to the water and see what that will do.  

Since the coins you have aren't crazy rare and are already in pretty rough shape, I don't think you've got a lot to lose in trying.

Dumb question - does this place auto-redact? It looks like they took the "cr ap" out before my "-tastic"... 

So any acid will etch the surface of the coin.  Ketchup typically has vinegar in it, so if you're really wanting to go that route just us straight vinegar, diluted a lot.  A word of caution on the vinegar - coins treated that way look great... for a very short time.  Then they tend to corrode worse than they were before.  And you have to be very, very thorough about rinsing. 

I've has reasonable luck with a *good* ultrasonic cleaner and distilled water.  The little -tastic plastic ones won't budge the stuck on stuff.  If that doesn't do the job, add a touch of vinegar to the water and see what that will do.  

Since the coins you have aren't crazy rare and are already in pretty rough shape, I don't think you've got a lot to lose in trying.

9 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

DoubledDie.com

Did you see something that makes you think it might be a DDR?  I’m not see not even a hint, although I suck at seeing that stuff...  gives me a headache..,

30 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Have you checked the DDR list yet?

Wait... what??  Why?  Are you seeing something I’m not?  I gotta go find that site... I know you posted it somewhere,,,

On 8/4/2019 at 5:19 AM, Lisae228 said:

Mrs Karen, I think u have an awesome outlook, an your attitude/personality seems to be knowledgeable, understanding and way more valuable than someone with years of experience. Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them.. Everyone has different reasons n pursuits in what they do and how they get there..I joined this last night. But doesn't seem like it's very friendly.. Almost seems like Facebook drama but a tad bit worse cause u don't truly know all of the people on here...

8 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Well, I had entered a big long response and all of a sudden it was just gone. Maybe I wasn't meant to say publicly what I had written. The Universe is hard at work on me tonight. Anywhooo...please don't allow one lonely old dude to run you off. The guys in this forum are truly the best of the best and idk what I'd have done without them. I like my FB Groups too but these guys are top of the line and most of the time very patient and helpful, but everyone has bad days and I've noticed one of them is MIA for about a week so maybe that is on their minds too. So don't run off! Hey, stick around! (You gotta kinda sing those last 2 lines)You will learn much and if you can take the criticisms that are sure to come your way, you might just make some friends while we're at it. Just remember, always post both sides of your coin with a clear question and close up of the questioned area. It makes all our lives easier. Easy=Happy -Karen

What Karen said (she's good people, in case that wasn't clear).  Not sure why that guy's got a bug up his butt.  Seems like kind of an (at least from his posts).  He's been doing this for 56 years and has clearly forgotten why he started.  And he has also lost sight of the fact that not everyone can (or necessarily wants to ) collect high-grade coins...  The really funny thing to me is that he thinks error coins are a waste of time but obviously fails to see the joy it brings people and just the thrill of the hunt... If it didn't make my eyes hurt, I'd probably be buying up rolls to hunt through... :lol:

8 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Well, imho, the 2 dings are merely 110 year old bag marks, the coin is definitely not red-idk anything about fat fingers and late nights. I also don't think it is even close to MS63 and I only zoomed in on the obverse. I doubt NGC or PCGS was the grader. All that said... I absolutely love it. I think it is a very handsome coin. The mix of colors on the reverse just do something for me, plus I've always been partial to the dark brown Cents as opposed to lighter or even red ones. I also totally dig the brushed finish. Ok I went back and enlarged the reverse as well. Those are some fairly deep scrapes above the O of ONE, so definitely 60 to 62 tops. Still a grand example though. I'd have totally bought it too.

Yeah, not red... maaaaayyybe red-brown, but not likely.  It was one of those in the cardboard with hand written "grade" on it.  I was thinking 60 on it.  I had missed the scar above the "O"... good call.

I'm not sure about the marks on the obverse... I thought most bag marks are more like lines,  not holes.  That's why I was confused.  

And it's even nicer in person.  I still can't quite capture the colors correctly.  Didn't really care what it was rated (mostly because I didn't trust what they had on it), but it's sure pretty.  

6 hours ago, Lisae228 said:

Mrs Karen, I think u have an awesome outlook, an your attitude/personality seems to be knowledgeable, understanding and way more valuable than someone with years of experience. Forums are meant to help  beginners and others who have questions in their hobbies that they enjoy doing, not meant to discourage them from them.. Everyone has different reasons n pursuits in what they do and how they get there..I joined this last night. But doesn't seem like it's very friendly.. Almost seems like Facebook drama but a tad bit worse cause u don't truly know all of the people on here...

Lol... wrong thread... but I have a feeling Karen will see it here anyway. 

Oh - and is it just me, or do the two spots above the R in Liberty and the spot crowding the Y look like strike throughs?  I’d say damage after the Y except for the overall cleanliness of the coin...

Looks like significant wear to me...

Zinc plated steel?

8 hours ago, Greenstang said:

Welcome to the Forum.

What you have is called DDD (Die Deterioration Doubling), so your right when you say worn dies.

Am I wrong in thinking there’s some mechanical DD on that one too?  I’m looking at the date in particular