I personally wouldn't buy one but there are some that will.  Are they worth it?  The buyer determines that.

2 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

And you are wrong. Throwing out "it's not authentic" is pretty lazy IMO.

Thank you very much for your reply.

11 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

No sir I think you are incorrect. Totally legit CC. This Pic is from vamworld. http://www.vamworld.com/wiki/File:1889-CC_RonH_VAM-2A_REV_03042012a.jpg

 

11 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

No sir I think you are incorrect. Totally legit CC. This Pic is from vamworld. http://www.vamworld.com/wiki/File:1889-CC_RonH_VAM-2A_REV_03042012a.jpg

 

And?

1. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not authentic.  I may be completely wrong; the old eyes aren't as good as they were.
2. Now here's one reason for my guess:  The mintmark.  Here is a pic of an authentic 1889 CC mint mark:
3. And here is a 100% guaranteed fake 1989 CC reverse (Pic #2)
4. As I said - I'm just guessing but a 1889 CC that nice and not slabbed?

Keep after it.  One day you'll score. 

Some things never change.   I am "slightly amused".

My latest purchase.  NGC AU 58

36 minutes ago, numisport said:

Need for higher level of grading is in fact their verification process. They themselves do not grade the coin in the holder, rather they verify the quality within or above the grade. But they will offer to buy the coin sight unseen.

What Does a CAC Sticker Mean?

The CAC GREEN Label signifies that a coin has met Certified Acceptance Corporation's stringent grading standards.

If it has met CAC's stringent grading process it receives a sticker and that indicates it is the grade, or better, that the TPG says it is.  And if it fails what happens then? 

1 hour ago, numisport said:

CAC mission is not to grade coins but to verify A or B but not C rated NGC or PCGS coins. In doing so they create their own sight unseen market to buy these coins. Too many times this is either forgotten or not thoroughly understood. See CAC website for details.

From the CAC website:

CAC-verified.
Because Confidence in a Coin's Quality is Priceless.

Whether you're a novice or advanced collector, you know that quality is what determines the value of a rare coin.

However, within any certified coin grade, not all coins are "solid" quality coins.

Now there's an easy way to identify coins that are solid for the grade - a CAC verification sticker.

CAC was founded by leading members of the numismatic community who recognized the need for a higher level of grading.  "the need for a higher level of grading".

With CAC, prices for the solid quality coins can be untethered from the lesser quality counterparts.

If CAC gives us that 'higher level of grading' why do I need a TPG?  Why not buy some do it yourself slabs and send the coin direct to CAC?

17 hours ago, Rollo Tomassi said:

Late to the debate but have to register MY ..opinion.   My OPINION only.

I consider it to be one of the worst innovations in the "hobby."

I agree completely and wholeheartedly with those saying how brilliant the BUSINESS PLAN is/was.   Pure genius in fact.

In my OPINION, we have conferred on one man (who does no grading) the power to decide just how GOOD the grade is.   If it's in the top 2/3 of the grade per...his...opinion, then approval is granted.  If not, well then the coin will have... and in reality already HAS HAD.... an inferred negative inference as to its MARKET PRICE.

I just sold an 1848-CAL quarter eagle that had such NICE color that it brought a record price "for its grade" ....but.... I can't even count the number of queries I got asking it it had been "approved."   So that tells ME that whether or not it has been "blessed" affects ...desirability.... to BUYERS.   Rightly or wrongly, that's an observable fact.  

I base this on another observation that NEW collectors and "the public" in general want, desire, hope for, accept and NEED .....advice ... in order to make decisions.

It's not something that ...I...want to deal with.   

You may be the best "unofficial" grader on earth.  You may have more time in the arena than most collectors.  But YOUR opinion will remain only YOURS without an "outside" approval.  

So MY ....actual program has persuaded me to SELL almost every coin I have that is NOT APPROVED!   Silly?  Maybe.   But it's what I did.

My PRESENT practice is to buy whenever possible a coin ALREADY APPROVED and remove at least one possible hoop for it to jump through if I decide to no longer own it.   I also have a STRINGENT requirement that the approved piece being considered is also EYE APPEALING TO ME !!!  So, the approval alone won't dictate whether I buy a coin or not.

My ...advice... (if even solicited) is to give yourself the least grief possible in pursuit of an enjoyable "hobby" and thus keep it a valued activity.   I don't consider approval to be so important in the arena of GOLD coins.   As a former dealer I can vividly recall the competition to buy GOLD coins whenever and wherever because they ARE LIQUID.. Gold sells. Day in, day out.....gold sells easily.   To a WIDE base of buyers.   But NON gold coins appeal to a more specialized and PERSONAL ...hobbyist.  And there is where "approval" becomes a necessity to them.

I base this OPINION as I have written it on personally observed TRENDS and as in the stock market (which coins definitely are NOT) fighting a "trend" is a discouraged practice by every financial person I know.

Pan this post or applaud it; it matters not to me.  It's MY OBSERVATIONS that have formed MY actions.

Having fun with your coins should be your ultimate objective.

In MY opinion. 

 

I agree with a lot you say except.....if CAC is now the standard we purchase by what do we need the TPGs for?  Seems better if CAC buys some cheap slabs to hold the coin and their sticker and does business that way.  Be cheaper in the long run for the buyer.

Just got this in today to add to my Carson City collection.  PCGS AU 55.

53 minutes ago, t-arc said:

So lets see, on an ngc slabbed coin you can have a plus on the grade, a star for superior appearance, and a “bean” from CACI for ?  Good grief!!!!

I'm with you.  I have a hard time understanding, other than to make more money off a coin, why it's needed.  I wonder what will come next. 

It seems to me all CAC does is tell you if the TPG knew what they were doing or didn't.  Very confusing.

I am sure Mr. Albanese is and I am sure everyone since the advent of third party grading/certifying had the good of the hobby at heart when they started.  As I said:  "good luck to them in the future".  Thanks very much for you reply.

5 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

Long ago and for what I believe was a relatively short time, NGC used the “W” designation on some of their grading labels for certain color-free coins. Whether it’s some of those or something else you’re speaking of, and regardless of where you saw them, it likely has nothing to do with CAC dealers. Any dealer could have or use a “W” designation.

I’ve been involved in the rare coin industry for more tha 40 years. My impression is that some dealers respect and treat collectors well, while others take advantage of them, whenever/however possible - just as it was decades ago. I’m glad you had good experiences with your dealer, but a great many other collectors weren’t and aren’t currently nearly as fortunate.

 

40 years is a long time and a lot has changed has it not?  So, I have a question for you.  Today we have an enormous amount of Chinese manufactured coins flowing through our little hobby.  Are we soon to expect slabs with counterfeit stickers on them?  Could it be done?  Will we have one more item to worry about?

Perhaps I have not made myself clear; perhaps some misunderstood.  When I was researching the CAC phenomena some, not all, coin dealers who submitted your coin to be CACed advertised a 'W' sticker.  Now, I do not purchase coins with additional enhancements on.  That is just my personal preference.  What others do is their business and none of mine.  I use NGC and PCGS and have not yet found any reason to doubt their ability to evaluate my coins satisfactory.  It's nice that these people have found a device that gives them profit; good luck in the future.

4 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

A sticker signifying that a coin is white has nothing to do with whether a dealer is a CAC dealer. Did you prefer the “old, old days when none of this inflated stuff” like PCGS and NGC grading  “was around and prices were easy”?

The only places I found this 'W' nonsense were on websites of dealers who, for a fee, will get  you a CAC sticker.  The man I first started buying coins from (back in the Day) graded all the coins he sold.  Over the years I came to trust his judgment; he is gone now.  Yeah, I'd like to go back to the old days when coin dealers respected the collector instead of looking at us as if we were their retirement plan and used all these neat little tricks to squeeze more bucks out of us.   

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 3:03 PM, the_Thing ® said:

I don't know, just seems a way to try and jack up a coins value over its grade.

I have to agree.  Maybe I have old fashioned thinking but I try very hard not to buy coins with stickers on.  Do you know CAC dealers even have a "W" sticker now that 'supposedly' certifies your coin is Blast White!  I Pay a TPG (NCG & PCGS) to certify a coin and grade it.  I trust them to be honest and provide a fair grade.  Oh for the old, old days when none of this inflated stuff was around and prices were easy. 

Very interesting anyway.

8 hours ago, Six Mile Rick said:

Over 1000 coins sent to NGC from me.   ---- Never a switch out on a coin!!  

Some worth $10 + and many top pops worth over $1000 each. I do trust their honesty and respect them for their true grading!!

Rick

Same here Rick.

42 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I get mad every time I see those pictures.

Thanks for some very enlightening pictures.  Just amazing the length a crook will go to.

It's very nice. 

Thanks Nutmeg, I will consider doing just that.

Alex

I recently purchased three CC Trade Dollars all graded by IGC.  The only ICG graded coins I have ever purchased.  They came back from NGC as follows:

ICG XF 40 back as NGC XF Details Cleaned 

ICG AU 53 back as NGC AU Details Cleaned

ICG MS 61 back as NGC XF 45

A very costly mistake on my part.  Now if this is a representation of how ICG grades coins it comes in as slightly better than pathetic.  A grader can't tell if a coin is 'cleaned'?

I have made it my policy never to buy an ICG graded coin as I feel their grading can not be trusted.  Sorry for being a spoil sport.

Alex