zadok

Only if they vote and THEN die. Given the demographic, that probably happens more than we’d like to think about. In governmental elections, dead voter ballots ARE SUPPOSED to be removed and not counted. As if…. When I was in the field, we DID remove them. They were all excuse-required absentees. There was no “early voting”. One day - 13 hours.
Best thing about Alabama elections? Still like it was. No early voting. No mail-ins without a valid excuse to NOT appear in person on a single Election Day. Yes, even mid-pandemic. No automatic ballots, no automatic APPLICATIONS for ballots. No drop boxes. You know, actual secure elections. 

n playboy club cards....ive still got my metal one, wonder if i could get it slabbed?...ditto the fluffy bunny tail....

i think the second figure behind lincoln is john wilkes booth......

There are many unusual and/or special coins for which there is no official documentation, among them, 1804 dollars, 1913 nickels, some Proof (classic) commemoratives and a number of patterns. 
I don't recall our conversation, but if my answer was along the lines of what you posted, I apologize for not providing a much better one. I could and would have described the differences in detail, were we siting face to face with some of those coins in hand. In lieu of that, my best option would have been to refer you to some of what has been written in auction lot descriptions of the coins and/or that provided by grading companies. However, if like RWB, you don't believe in the coins unless there's official documentation, there's no point in reading. 

I have no idea if 64 SMS coins are a myth or reality, and honestly don’t care that much. Not something I would target anyway. Ironically gun to my head I would say it is unlikely they exist, but I have no backing for that and have never seen a coin considered SMS from 64. 
 
What I take issue with is the approach of this and other threads. @RWB is hypocritical in two distinct ways and I don’t think they are logical. 
 
1. I agree with your recollection of public debate and numismatic community research in the past. 
However, when the numismatic community, with some I would consider experts, give opinions you dismiss them by factually stating it is incorrect. Shouldn’t we take your own advice and look at all evidence, including both your stance no documentation exists and evaluating coins deemed SMS? Why are you unilaterally stating no one else’s opinion, and let’s be honest these are all opinions on both sides, is of any merit? I think peer review is a great thing, and is a major tenant in academia which you like to emulate. Here you are dismissing peer review and would be heckled out of academia.  If your declaration is correct it should stand easily on its own merits and not be concerned with criticisms. 
 
2. Dismissing lack of documentary evidence as proving the point, as well as claiming others were doing things for monetary gain, is the epitome of hypocrisy. While I am in now way going to slander you, and I do have a ton of respect for your work, I think there is a well documented occurrence of you doing exactly what you are bemoaning. Here is a citation of interest from the Coin World article analyzing the Langboard 1933 Double Eagle trial. My entire point here is to say that opinions and debate should be encouraged and not quashed immediately as lies lead by greed. Please accept diverse opinions, debate them, and stipulate your opinions as such which ironically is what you say you want as was done in the past. 
” Perhaps more problematic was a Feb. 10, 2009, posting that has since become inaccessible where Burdette wrote to the effect of mustering all the hearsay and innuendo required to obfuscate the facts; adding, “I’ll do it at $300 an hour.” Rue wasted no time in asking Burdette, “Isn’t that what you’ve done here today?” attacking the credibility of his findings. Burdette replied that his comments on the message board were sarcastic and didn’t reflect his research, frequently asking to be shown the statements as he didn’t remember them individually.” 
 
A link to my source:
https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/1933-double-eagle-trial-roger-burdette-takes-.html
 

It is not possible to have an open discussion with one who continually speaks and writes in absolutist terms, as you do. You clearly have an attitude problem with any system in which the arbiter of truth is anyone but you. We’ve seen that here and in court.
You are correct that extraordinary claims must be backed by “evidence”, but it is MASSIVELY INCORRECT to attach the adjective “documentary” onto the front of it. Documentary is second hand evidence, not first hand. It’s gussied up dumpster diving. Evidence of VERY MANY types exist, not the least of which CAN BE (or might not be) the items in question themselves. At the Trial of the Pyx in England, there are no documents, just the coins themselves, the ultimate evidence. 

It is all very, very simple: An extraordinary claim MUST ALWAYS be accompanied by documentary evidence. That is: those making the claim must publish their complete evidence and proof.
That was what happened in the "old days." There was no TPG dictating. One specialist identified something he/she thought new or unusual. An article was written and published. Others added their ideas. Eventually, the claim was accepted or rejected on the evidence presented in public. The conclusions might or might not have actually been correct, but at least everyone interested had the opportunity to examine the evidence and offer comments.
Now, with so many praying to the Golden God TPG, some of the Golden God Angels merely reach a secret conclusion, print some labels, and possibly publish a superficial promotional article. There is no public disclosure of all the information; no open and wide debate; no opportunity for specialists to inform the Golden God TPG.

its mostly an issue of a baseline price n any premiums associated with any rarity of the coin...common date $20 gold pcs, liberty n saints, in low grade mint state or circ have consistently been selling at melt value with a slight premium for several years now, as evidenced by realized prices on such forums as ebay n prices that dealers sell them for on the bourse floors at shows...these common coins reflect the changing values of gold basically on a dollar for dollar basis...at a recent unclaimed bank deposit box auction some 28 saints in mint state condition sold for prices that covered the full spectrum...common date lower grade mint state sold at n actually below melt value, reflecting the auctioneers buyers premiums, with several realizing prices at $1700, some averaging $2000 n a couple with prices over $50,000...those at the bottom of the price spectrum slightly affected by the price of gold n those at the highest end not being affected by the price of gold at all....

I was speaking of knowledgeable collectors and dealers. And so there’s no confusion, I do distinguish them from dumpster divers.😉

B-b-b-but that would require actual observational skills and the ability to think. That skill set typically does not exist in over-glorified dumpster divers. 

Do you read replies? I already stated “It is a fact that no documentation has been found. The distinctive appearance of thecoins, themselves, serves as good evidence, however. The same goes for some early (pre 1858) Proof coins, for which there is no official documentation. Sometimes, the coins speak for themselves.”

well id like to see ur documents that support ur opinions that they dont exist...just because u didnt find any documents that affirm their existence doesnt mean that they werent made...just one persons biased opinion, nothing more...same as ur opinions on there not being any branch mint proofs...more biased opinions, that dont stand up to scrutiny, many more numismatically knowledgeable people that dont support ur opinions on these subjects than those that do n of course there r the actual coins that do exist...im not aware of anyone appointing u or any one else to actually define what is n what isnt in these undocumented areas of our coinage....every one is entitled to their own opinions, none of which become facts just because we want them to be....the hobby doesnt have or need an empirical emperor...

Oh, you don't seem to grasp the difference. An opinion based on facts and documents is called "truth" - at least until someone comes up with contrary facts. That is the scientific method applied to numismatics. Hypothesis, research, data, analysis, correlation, conclusions -- whether that conclusion supports or disproves the hypothesis is the final result. None of that was done with the phone "1964 SMS" tall-tale. All of what I write and publish is, to the best of my feeble abilities, as accurate, complete and truthful as possible. The contemporary documents, letters, tables, reports  are the basis - they tell the story, not my personal opinion.
You and other make extraordinary claims for this and "specimen" coins and other off-the-wall nonsense -- prove them. Publish the "expert" analysis with data. Pretend you and other understand research science, not the rotten from Breen and his other acolytes.
Post the documents..... Where are they? Where is the authentication research and analysis for these so-called "1964 SMS" coins? Data? Publish it -- not guesses or "Geeee, it looks like...uh...well...kinda...1965-ish," drivel. Come on. Show us the facts and someone claiming "It looks like...." is opinion, not fact.
There are none. No research analysis has ever been published. No original documentation. Nothing. The whole thing is an ignorant and greed-base lie.

its mostly an issue of a baseline price n any premiums associated with any rarity of the coin...common date $20 gold pcs, liberty n saints, in low grade mint state or circ have consistently been selling at melt value with a slight premium for several years now, as evidenced by realized prices on such forums as ebay n prices that dealers sell them for on the bourse floors at shows...these common coins reflect the changing values of gold basically on a dollar for dollar basis...at a recent unclaimed bank deposit box auction some 28 saints in mint state condition sold for prices that covered the full spectrum...common date lower grade mint state sold at n actually below melt value, reflecting the auctioneers buyers premiums, with several realizing prices at $1700, some averaging $2000 n a couple with prices over $50,000...those at the bottom of the price spectrum slightly affected by the price of gold n those at the highest end not being affected by the price of gold at all....

It is a fact. It is another extraordinary claim that is not supported by facts. No amount of "looks like" authentication will change the fact that there is no documentation . There is no evidence whatever of so-called 1964 SMS coins. None. Zero.
It is a lie built on ignorance and perpetuated by greed.

You don’t seem able or willing to distinguish many of your opinions from facts. It is a fact that no documentation has been found. The distinctive appearance of the coins, themselves, serves as good evidence, however. The same goes for some early (pre 1858) Proof coins, for which there is no official documentation. Sometimes, the coins speak for themselves.
 
In the event that you’d like to stop hearing back from me and some others, all you need to do is express your opinions as opinions and not facts, which you often mix in with unfair unfounded and unfair accusations. 

Sorry about that. I figured you were aware - it was meant for others who weren’t or who were denying it.😉

am aware...just as neither dictionaries reference reproduction, perhaps someone has reproduction confused with fabrication....but thanks for the supporting affirmation....

What you’ve read above is an opinion and numerous people disagree. 

...one must be careful standing on the tracks, often there is a train there as well....but a sincere Happy Birthday...i gave u two of my precious capital letters....septuagenarians deserve a break once in a while......enjoy...

oh please mr magistrate whatever u do, dont send me to australia.....sydney, melbourne, canberra all those horrible places...i wont steal anymore bread....

sounds like afghanistan today....just give it a few more years the way things heading n can witness it first hand here....

...one must be careful standing on the tracks, often there is a train there as well....but a sincere Happy Birthday...i gave u two of my precious capital letters....septuagenarians deserve a break once in a while......enjoy...

To keep from involving myself in the false grading debacle I am going to post a silver coin.