Insider

I understand fully. I'll do the experiment because TILTING A COIN under a camera on a fixed stand is "child's play." I'm going to use my fingers. This is why I like to tip a coin... It helps me take horrible micrographs of characteristics I wish to show to others.

This statement caused me to buy the 7th Edition: "if you actually read the 7th edition of the "Official ANA yadda yadda", all the modern TPGS criteria are in there, in black and white," Will you please elaborate exactly where the the NGC or PCGS criteria appears. I'm unable to find it , very disappointed , and out some money. I'm thinking of posting my problem online at GFM to recover the $19.95 + Shipping.

At the moment, I tend to believe all of you. Nevertheless, I'll see for myself this week.

Are you from Texas? I see a "Hook-em Horns" emoji. What you could do for us that would save time (I trust you) until I do it would be to image a full coin with a digital camera that is tilted to the light.

Before you leave the thread you started, I'd like to read your opinion on your question.

I asked for some time in our imaging department this week.

SELF EDIT: No comment for now. You have left off the most important part of your post. What made you arrive at your opinion? Well some toning throws me off as I'm not an expert in this area. The vibrant colors are what makes me think AT. Of course, toning is even more harder for me to determine when I can only see a small part of a coin. I'm starting to presume that the majority of your posts are suppose to be directed towards those that are true numismatists and not the average collector. I also presume that is some of the reasons for the responses that you are getting. The colors on the coin are extremely close to the actual coin. Those of you who guessed AT are correct. Vivid colors as this or anything remotely close to these colors plus the pattern they are in SHOULD ALWAYS point to AT in spite of the .05% of identical looking coins that are NATURALY toned.. I've seen some that are very close to this. Silver rounds in a bucket for years in a gas heated building. There were cobwebs on the bucket opening SO I WOULD BE ONE OF THE ONLY professional graders/dealers who would call them NT! The other reason I know this coin is AT because I toned it.

Here is the problem. If someone calls me or any member of my family anything, it does not matter. A majority of folks on the "planet" (a "woke" word used by progressives and uninformed snowflakes who lap up their anti-USA teachings to replace the word "EARTH.") have been lied about, called names, etc. Get over it! The member who baited you (BTW in a sneaky way I liked) stepped way off bounds with his comments. Since he rarely posted anything of value to me, he joined my special group of 2. However, I understand EXACTLY how he feels about "chat forum police." who would rather report something in a discussion RATHER THAN JUST KEEP OUT OF IT AND GO AWAY.

Thanks, I'll bet this is true for digital cameras also.

There can always be a "sticker" company. However, if coins were graded correctly that range would shrink a lot especially if folks that were knowledgeable were doing the grading. Here is the thing. If we were to put five of the best graders of Liberty $20 in the country in a room with the strictest ("take it or take it) grading standards and let them decide on a coin's permanent, forever grade (condition of preservation) taking as much time to come to an agreement like MS-63.7. That would be its grade and only a fool would argue with them. The market will value the coin. Now, we have some top professionals grading that $20 Liberty's in less than 30 seconds each. A finalizer holds the company line. They claim they are putting a commercial value on the coin by assigning a grade. You can get different grades for that exact coin from the same service and you know what, each grade assigned MS-63 or MS-64 can be defended.

Yes, this is a case where the entire coin would save me a lot of grief so folks would believe me when I posted that the coin was a TOTALLY ORIGINAL "gem" and the marks were not damage.

Do folks understand why "any coin worth sending in once is worth sending in again" is true. It generates the thrill of sending the same coin in several times by the same or multiple owners until gradeflation or something gets it graded higher. It generates income for the TPGS.

Looks like a ring light is the only way to go.

I have no clue. Perhaps you should ask the experts. Until Jason, you, and a few others started to asking great questions and making suggestions I never gave this a thought. All I know for sure is this is NOT PMD.

1. Thanks for the correction Jason. You are the man. Since the image does not show the coins edge stupid me should be much more careful to use the correct terminology so I don't lead folks astray. I'm thankful that I didn't need to correct the title of this thread. 2. Forty-nine years ... There's that joke again. 3. I've seen many hundreds of them and until now never thought anything about it. After seeing this coin last week I got interested. 4. Thanks for the correction. I forgot all about the prong holders. None of the TPGS that I worked for had them. NGC started after I left and ICG only uses them for the small modern dollars. 5. Nope. That's why I'm asking all the coin experts here. I'll be looking for other examples to post.

About 49+ years of examining coins at extreme magnification. Of course this is a complete joke that cannot possibly be true. The reason this is not PMD is any time you look at an "as made artifact" on a coin using high magnification. you will be able to see an original, undisturbed surface. Any form of PMD destroys the originality of a surface. Except for perhaps .01% of the time, you cannot hide PMD with toning, cleaning or chemicals.

I just read the OP and the opinions posted by others - again. Since it has been stated several times that a digital camera does not have a large depth of field (I'll see for myself this week) that may explain why I can get a totally in focus image with a coin tilted at 20 degrees - because the area I image is extremely small.

Go ahead and ruin my weekend. I hope I can do as well. You've got me very worried now as I will not know until I take my first shot this week.

Pressure? This we know for sure: 1. The edge is totally original. This is not PMD! 2 The marks were on the planchet because the part of the die that makes a rim does not get worn to this extent or we would see this all the time. It is an uncommon characteristic. This we don't know YET: 1. What part of the minting process did this happen? I'm surprised that no one has posted an image of a similar coin yet. You probably can't see it in a slab. Look at Peace dollars and quarters in the 40's. I've seen this on half dollars and Morgan's. I don't recall any coin smaller than a quarter with this characteristic.

The reason for Barbara's departure is unknown to most of us. Let's hope it was entirely her decision and not due to price cuts. When an organization needs to "tighten" the finances, the folks at the top with the highest salary are usually the first to go. I've experienced this personally twice. The ANA is a typical organization with internal "political factions." In this instance, I'll guarantee that her departure was not a "political" decision!

I though I gave you a "like" for the OP before I posted a "tip." I see that it didn't register and that's because we are only allowed a small number of "likes" to use each day and I give them out to my limit. I suggested tilting a coin because it WORKS. You disagreed. I made my suggestion because 80% of my images are made by tilting the coin and rotating it in the light so that what I wish to show is very clear. It has nothing to do with white balance or color. As I said before, EVERYONE photographing a coin SHOULD KNOW they can hide most things on coins by changing the type of light, the direction of light , rotating the coin, or tipping it at an angle. We see many comments about this with images posted on Ebay. If I need to prove I can hide something even when viewed at high power to those who disagree I shall. Read my column (from someone virtually ignorant on digital photography) on that subject. Apparently, you disagree with my "tip." This is a place for learning and teaching. When someone disagrees with anything I post - game on! Prove me wrong,** I'll concede, and thank you for correcting my misinformation. You'll notice I don't ever run from a question or discussion. Unfortunately, there is one or two of you who do it constantly on most discussions I've had with them. Perhaps you know who they are. The sarcastic way I discuss things with folks who challenge my posts and the barbaric "example" I used (I'm half Arab) to convey how I would carry out an execution in a reply got me banned at the ATS because the "snowflakes" couldn't stomach reality. I started to use a similar example in a reply to a member here about prepared citizens but wisely did not. ** Something I've posted has been corrected three times on various forums and it is very embarrassing; however, it is good for me and others posting OPINIONS to know what's "right." PS This week I will post an image or several showing the entire coin. We are very busy and I'll need to get the images I take sent to my computer. I'm going to try very hard to do this ASAP. I've made a promise so please give me all the time I'll need. If what I think I can do actually works, it will be a very interesting addition and challenge to this discussion. The blood is in the water.

It is probably impossible to reach a consensus on an ADJECTIVE. Example: I get almost daily gripes from collectors and others complaining that So-and-So is small or So-and So is large. Another variant is that So-and-So is large when buying and small when selling. So what is small and large when speaking about something on a coin such as a scratch? I guess it is as subjective as conservative and liberal.

I suggest you talk with your doctor and get ahead. I've got a two year supply of blood pressure Meds by breaking a larger dose (that I don't need) in half. PS I just tried to message a member so we could discuss off-topic things off line 0but did not go through. Next week, I'll post some photos as a test of acceptability.

Now, if you could kindly keep this thread on the topic of photography of coins would be much appreciated. Perhaps you'll follow your request and stop throwing chum to the sharks. I notice that the "software" took the A S S out of the word "assumption" I used above. The software is on your side. Please explain why you enjoy arguing with yourself: "If you cannot keep up with the times..." "Longing for the good old days... "Complaining about technological advances" " I went to great lengths replying to your posts with science and facts." When someone is not entirely informed about a subject because they didn't bother to get ALL the FACTS from all the available sources, their "facts" may not be entirely correct. Example: there is a huge coverup going on right now. It is not being reported as it should be. I appreciated the time you took to post your "facts." Unfortunately, each time you were asked a direct question you went silent. "... your constant ranting and way of talking down to everyone is off-putting." I have a very abrasive personality. I don't suffer uninformed folks UNLESS they are a student and I turn into a kind, old, lap dog. I grew up in a different generation where no one made up fake genders so "challenged" folks could appear to be normal. We were able to speak our mind. When called a name we dished one back and laughed about it. "Offended" was only a dictionary word rather than the "snowflake-way-of-life" where folks call the police because the neighbor is smoking a cigarette in the back yard! I'm not here to make friends but I consider everyone on this site to be my friend - including you. "...whatever that has to do with coin photography now. I own and have read over a dozen books on photography." My photography library is out of date. That's because I lost interest. Again, the micrographs I take serve my purpose for publication in my columns. Over the years less than a half dozen folks have complained about them when posted on the Internet. I guess it is easer to critique an image rather than take a guess about what is shown. "... But some of us don’t just lay down and grovel at your omniscient feet. I know nonsense when I read it. You have to earn respect, not demand it. Your age doesn’t give you a pass." You continue to reveal yourself. THIS: "lay down and grovel at your omniscient feet." is exactly what I'm talking about. It is a mirror to your poor attitude. I personally find the majority of the younger generation in this country are very disappointing and extremely uninformed about the world. That's why many of them burn down things, destroy our Heritage, and have no respect for others.. I also find a very large number of older folks to be extremely ignorant so it has nothing to do with age! Anyone who thought it does is silly or just young. I'll look forward to having a drink with you someday at a show,

Yes, and just so you know... Oops, if I were to post the rest of my thoughts, I would be reported by the "weenies" and banned as happened on the ATS.