GoldFinger1969

History, the story behind the coin and the coins (plural), their role in American commerce and economic power, and a little stash for me and my heirs that is in addition to any real estate or financial assets I may hold, regardless of whether they have appreciated in the aggregate or lost money.

Nice !!!!

Back To The OP.....these UHRs are clearly trophy coins/patterns, and like most key dates and rarities and more expensive coins, they have been bid up in the last few months/year. I always wonder: how many people, excluding coin collectors, are even AWARE of the UHRs and HRs ? I know myself I wasn't familiar with them until maybe 10-12 years ago, into my 40's. I think as more people find out about them or more likely are TOLD about them, you can see more and more people take an interest in them and bid them up. You do see lots of references in pop culture to things like the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle Rookie Card -- hence the incredible surge there in prices (100-fold in 30 years, 25-fold in 10 years). I could see the same spreading-the-word about UHRs and HRs boosting prices there (more so for the UHRs since they are so few). If the 1933 Saint goes for close to $15 MM, I can easily see it dragging up the UHRs as "cheap" for 1/3rd the price.

Prices haven't SKYROCKETED as you asked in your opening post....but they've risen and there are bids underneath, as we say in the trade. When every single acution house and virtually all dealers say business is good/great/spectacular.....you know it has to be. And when you also throw in the fact that they couldn't/didn't travel that is a HUGE increase to the bottom line. I'm not an expert on LCS or dealer economics, but if you figure you go to 2 or 3 big national coin shows....and maybe a few other local ones.....you have to figure you save a few hundred on the latter and a few thousand on the former. That now goes straight to the bottom line. For the bigger shops, this is a huge windfall. Heritage must have brought 15-20 people to FUN 2020. They had TONS of books and inventory they brought.....flew or drove from Texas to Florida.....hotel and food for their employees for 4-5 nights/days. They must have saved 6-figures from that show and others like it.

Actually, NGC comes out smelling like a rose. Virtually everyone has praised them and said they did nothing wrong. The probably realize they have a very disappointed client who really may have thought he had $200,000 in coins (I assume he inherited them) and now finds they are worth at most 1% of that value. Yes, kudos to NGC for letting The Truth rule on these forums, unlike others, and I think they have come out a winner by letting everything flow here and let it enhance their integrity and reputation.

M = 1,000 and MM is 1000x1000 or 1 million.

He had another series he committed to. Alexander had just signed to play the role of Sgt. Dan Briggs on the weekly ABC series FELONY SQUAD.

Info on the Paquet Reverse at HA: https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/double-eagles/1861-s-20-paquet-reverse-au58-ngc-pcgs-8936-/a/1223-4460.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Patterns.com also has information.

All the dealers say business has been great since March 2020....not just OK.... GREAT ...auction sites say activity/registrations/sales great, too.....people with time on their hand and some $$$ got back into coins......happened to me a few times in the past....this time, you had the ease of online bidding besides Ebay (HA, GC, etc.). Key dates tend to be more expensive, right ? Then I would think that the people buying those are going to be the least-affected by Covid-19.

You have lots of people with big $$$ from tech and social media. Many are in their 20's and 30's and 40's....buying stuff like this at big prices is nothing as they are reliving their youths. Look at the NFT craze. Look at the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle...I think it was $50,000 in mint condition when I was active in the early-1990's....it flatlined or dropped after the Bubble burst.....I believe it was $150,000 in the 2000's....and today it's what, $5 MM for one of the best ones ? Unreal........

Not at all.....first, they don't know if you are a buyer or not. Second, they realize even if you don't buy then you might buy in the future. Third, many/most really like to be helpful and grow the hobby by answering questions. I guess if you do nothing but ask to see 27 different coins from their case they might get a little tired of reaching in. But that's the exception. I found most of the dealers super-friendly and very helpful. They really only get upset or a bit rankled if you do something that violates protocol such as reaching in yourself without permission....putting (heavy) stuff on their glass cases....or putting food or drinks near their merchandise. Other than that, they'll be very helpful and happy to chit-chat even, if there aren't other customers to service. I can't recall one negative experience from FUN 2020 and I hit every single dealer at least once.

I thought Joe said he wasn't going to pay the fees and some posts here said the TPGs have been stuck in the past.

They are raw or graded ? Ever seen or handled the 1849 DE ?

Sounds interesting, Roger, keep this thread alive and us posted.

Then are they really "high relief" ? I thought the coins had to be -- or should be -- concave. These things must have abraded a ton if used in circulation.

Nah, I know, but I figured since you were on a '60's theme show kick.......

If you've NEVER been to a coin show then it is probably best to go to a few local shows of modest size, like 20-40 tables/dealers. You'd be overwhelmed, IMO, if you want to a big regional like Whitman or a national like FUN right out of the gate. I had been going to coin shows for 10+ years and I was overwhelmed my 1st day at FUN last year. In fact, my 1st day was a complete waste. Thankfully, I was better organized and a few NGC/CT friends helped me determine a course of action and also let me know where the dealers who had stuff I wanted to see would be located. 2nd and 3rd days were super-productive. Navigating a huge complex with 600+ dealers can be time-consuming and chaotic.

Then the TPGs need to bill in advance and/or get a downpayment.

That was what was 100% new to me....I didn't realize if you got billed on $200,000 in coin value and they turn out to be worth $2,000 that you still pay as if they were worth the former.

I'm actually going to try and hit the Baltimore Whitman Show in November. A bit smaller, I would just be there probably 1 day. Can drive back to my folks house that night.

NGC comes out smelling like a rose here. They did nothing wrong. As for my lack of knowledge on grading, I think I realized that sending in an expensive coin would have some higher fees -- but I definitely didn't realize that a 90-99% reduction in market value based on countefeit or other grading status would NOT be matched by a cut in grading fees. For my needs, that doesn't even really matter even if I start sending in some coins since the difference in the coins values would be minimal in most cases (since I mostly have gold and silver coins).

Submitted for your amusement.......an ordinary common Morgan Dollar....the owner, 74-year old Elinore Dimple....who needs the money to buy pet supplies for her 3-year old poodle campanion......grade level of the coin......MS63......worth a few dollars at our local coin shop.....but somehow.....re-submitted for grading.....returned without the blemishes, a near-perfect coin......now MS69........estimated market value.......$150,000....now Mrs. Dimple is being beseiged by coin collectors who all want the coin for their sets....and will pay any price....or do ANYTHING.....to get it....even it means.....entering.....The Twighlight Zone.

There's no concavity to these High Relief Peace Dollars.....you can see Liberty/the device rise above the fields like Olympus Mons rises above the Martian plains (bet you never thought you'd see that analogy ! ). Why no concavity like the 1907 High Reliefs ? The coins must have got alot more abraison without it.

Any Double Eagle patterns in that time period ? Liberty's ? I guess the UHR's wouldn't be discussed until 1906, and I know you covered this in-depth in RoAC and the SG DE book....so not sure if you have anything new to add even if you move the date forward.

No skyrocketing, but between last year's rise in gold/silver and lots of new bidders, prices have generally been strong. I was hoping to be able to buy an MCMVII High Relief AU58 for about $10,000 later this year but the price has risen and the market moved against me. BIG increase in Saint-Gaudens Ultra High Relief prices. Just hit $4 MM for a coin, close to $3 MM in February. Prices were in the 2's a few years ago.