GoldFinger1969

Can you post pics of these special FUN slabs ?

Maybe, but post-Covid everyone has to evaluate things they may have underpriced in the past and maybe even not charged for at all. I work in the financial sector. It basically costs $3,000 for a firm to take on a client before they make a single dollar off them. That's the pro-rata share for overhead, regulatory filings, paperwork, insurance, manager fees, etc. Net-Net.....assuming a 1% (100 basis points) management fee, it doesn't pay for the firm to take on a client if they don't have $500,000. I've worked for firms that had $500K and $2 MM minimums. Some firms it's $10 MM.

She could afford the dry cleaning........

Roger has some very good stuff on gold flows among nations in his book.

Do you attend all 3 of the big national shows (FUN, Long Beach, ANA) ? I'm wondering how dealer attendance and public attendance has trended for all of them up to 2020 -- and how it goes post-Covid.

I always enjoy reading/seeing your post-show threads, congrats. Another outstanding one. Attended FUN 2020 but couldn't this year with some pending family health updates pending. But should be there at FUN 2023 and might even buy a Flying Eagle from you for my nieces as presents.

So.....you're saying that RWB had a hand in the theft of the 1928 DEs ??!!! I KNEW something was off when Roger said he didn't have much information on it. He ALWAYS has information....man is the World Book Enclyopedia and Encylopedia Brittanica before there was Wikepedia ! Ok, Roger....hand 'em over. I want two MS67's from the bag or I go to the Feds.

Fascinating comments from David Akers on how stable the 1921 Saint has been in the scarcity rankings since WW II. I will check Roger's updated estimates to make sure that what he said here about a decade ago still stands, I believe it does: "...The standing of the 1921 in the overall hierarchy of Saint-Gaudens double eagle rarities has changed less over the last seven decades than any other regular issue in the series. During that time, some issues have dropped precipitously from their place at the top (1924-S and 1926-S for example) and others have risen substantially (1920-S, 1930-S and especially 1927-D) but the 1921 has always been recognized as being among the top four rarities of the series, both 70 years ago and today, at least with respect to value. The only thing that has changed is the other three coins with it at the top. The 1921 is now considered to be the second most valuable regular issue Saint-Gaudens double eagle, surpassed only by the 1927-D whose extreme rarity was not recognized fully until the 1950s, at least in comparison to other issues in the series. Judged solely on its population rarity, meaning the total number of specimens known in all grades, the 1921 is certainly rare, but not exceptionally so, comparable overall to the 1920-S, but actually less rare than the 1930-S and 1932. However, as a condition rarity it is the unrivaled "Queen" of the Saint-Gaudens series because the condition at which it becomes extremely rare and valuable is lower than for any other issue. Of course, every Saint is a condition rarity at a certain level. For example, any issue is (or would be if one existed) a great rarity in MS68 or 69. For some issues MS67 is the rarity point, for others it is MS65 or MS66. But no issue, not even the 1927-D, is as difficult to locate in MS64 or higher grades as the 1921. Only four or possibly five specimens are known in the MS65 and MS66 grades combined with nothing finer. Even in the MS63 and 64 grades, the 1921 is a major rarity with no more than 12-15 examples known of those two grades combined."

Yup, lower graded notes for "trophy items" appreciated a ton the last 2 years during Covid. Large-denomination bills, for instance. There was an article about how the influx of buyers had moved up the price a ton, and this was probably 9-12 months ago. I'll see if I can find it.

If they are graded, I feel alot more comfortable. If the Gold Certificate I bought was advertised as PMG 58 or PMG 65, but not officially graded, and with no return policy, I would have been screwed. I think I paid about $250 or a bit less for my note and stuff in the 60's was costing $600 or so. Heck, the seller may not have even known it had waves in it from side-light. They could have been in the dark, too. Grading makes you pretty certain of what you are getting. My GC is very nice, but no, it's not a high-50's or mid-60's note even though it LOOKS like that from pics or even in-hand at first glance.

Yeah, lighting angle on coins can cover up stuff but nothing material or anything major. But like I said above, the side-light shining on a bill -- something I never would have known about before reading about it in the forums -- turned what looked like a pristine, blemish-free bill into a bill with like 5 or 6 easily noticeable folds, creases, hills, etc. The bill went from the Great Plains (flat) to the Rocky Mountains in no time !

Harder because even though on some of my lower-graded notes I can see wrinkles or folds, I could not see ANYTHING on the GC after looking at it for 2 minutes. I'm thinking, the thing is undergraded by 20 points !! But if you look at it with light from the side, then you would (probably) see the wrinkles I can't see. Someone posted a with and without side light on a bill. Looked pristine and perfect in the former.....looked like a range of hills in the latter.

Haven't looked in a while, but some of the mid-60's PMG-gradeds were costing $500 give or take. I often will go down to PMG 58, where you can get nice-looking notes that often don't have blemishes that are easy to see via pics or even in hand. Pretty well-centered, tough to see folds and often no stains....biggest problem is if you do the side-light test then the wrinkles and bumps show up (but that's why it's hard to see the blemishes). I once conducted a poll over on CT on GTG on my Gold Certificate and lots of folks were saying 58-65. It is graded PMG 40 !!

I do....as with coins, I'm an eclectic type collector...whatever moves me. I have lots of low-value Silver Certificates....a Gold Certificate....and some special notes like Hawaii, North Africa, Light Green Seal, etc. Probably only spend 1/4th on bills/currency what I do on coins. I go through phases...buy a lot over a few weeks/months....then go years without buying any. Trying to get one of those Red Seal $100 bills from the 1960's but they are pricey in nice condition.

You mean Etsy is the POOP you lost if you had the runs !!

Do you guys think any 1964-D's got out ?

No idea, but I'll look for that branch this week when I go to the Mid-Town Manhattan branch (itself 100% redesigned during Covid from the beaten-down, shclumpy place it was years ago).

What's the biggest difference between the presses today vs. 100 years ago...the materials they are made out of, or the accuracy we can implement using lasers, etc. ? They are able to make lots of MS and PF70s' even in 5 ounce size. Tough to make flawless coins with fields that big. Even easier for 1 and 2 ouncers.

The bag of 250 1928 Double Eagles only weighed 16 pounds. The thing is, it was in a vault where you would have had to carry it out and up past lots of people. Maybe a woman or a guy could use their coat or something to cover-up the bag....or maybe there was an emergency exit closer to the vaults, though I don't think so based on Roger's schematics. A few coins I can understand sneaking out. An entire bag, during working hours, that's alot tougher. I wonder if they "hid" the bag somewhere...and snuck the coins out individually over time, plus the bag ?

Now that's an idea. I wonder if The NY Times or the Philly papers had coverage on the theft and it's on microfilm.

There's more on the 1933's than on those stolen 1928's. Nobody would have been following the Congressional legislation to absolve the Mint Super from liability because WW II was going on (that probably helped them get it through). And with plenty of 1928's once DEs started coming back from Europe, who needed a stray/stolen 1928 even if you could establish it came from the stolen bag ? Besides, if you did have proof it was from that bag, chances are you were involved OR knew who was. I've not seen anything on the stolen bag of 1928's other than what Roger wrote up for the bag. It's not well-ccvered. It wasn't a high priority and no publicity appears to have been generated when they got the bill passed to absolve Dressel; D-Day was probably approaching. You read about these modern-day hoards found in the hills inside coffee cans and you wonder about those 1928's.

The Newman Portal Biography on Breen ?

Don't forget, in his defense, he didn't have computers and the Internet for the bulk or all of his research days. Any examples come to mind ? Did he mostly embellish the STORY that went along with the coin...or did he materially misrepresnet coins including countefeits as something they were not ? The former is excusable, the latter not. I second that. I also am not happy that many of our books are not available in online formats, whether it is Kindle or the equivalent or PDFs. It really restricts the ability to reach new audiences and impedes even us old foggies. Saving threads in forums like this is also important. We're having a nice discussion ATS about the Omega Countefeits and Joe Bonanno and the original thread got deleted by the CU mods so somehow all a few of us have is the posts by the guy who was the son of JB's lawyer. It's better than nothing, but without the questions and comments from the other folks, it's like listening to 1-side of a phone coveresation. One project I already did was to put the David Akers comments from the HA database that accompanies the highest-sales or most-famous auctions of various Saint-Gaudens coins into a PDF. Tons of various comments that don't show up elsewhere. I also may pay someone down the line to put the comments and data (even if outdated) from his 1907-33 Gold Coin book and Bowers Double Eagle book into Word/PDF format. There aren't that many books on Saint-Gaudens DE's. Of course, I/we really need Roger's Saint-Gaudens book (among others) in online format. That said, I have already gone through his book and identified which sections have the most interesting data/information that I want copied (mostly the Commentary sections) and just need to find someone willing to do it. I estimate about 100-125 pages and someone can type it at their leisure with no rush so eventually I hope to find someone who can help me out. Unless HA finally relents and gets the book into an online format.

I'd wager so many more thefts in the 1800's than 1900's. And I'd think very few once cameras were common after the 1940's.

Roger, based on the lack of research/commentary on the stolen 1928 Double Eagles, I take it nobody ever tried to claim or ask about if any of them were sold during the 1940's or 1950's or later ? As far as you know, has anybody in modern times covered the theft besides yourself ?