GoldFinger1969

On 7/19/2022 at 11:51 AM, Oldhoopster said:

So we're stuck with people like RWB,  Capt Henway,  David Lange, Jack Young and others doing the research and hoping to recoup their costs through book sales and articles.  Gotta be a tough way to make a living.

You would have thought that one of the deep-pocketed coin collectors over the last 40 years would have set up a foundation to fund such research and also award prize money at the big conventions and trade shows (like FUN).

Good way to also keep your name alive in perpetuity. 

On 7/18/2022 at 6:01 PM, zadok said:

...SLQ? or SLH?....big diff....

Sorry guys, the word SEATED was blotted by a Closed Capitioning box but I see now it's Seated Liberty Half Dollars.  I saw the "S" and assumed Standing coins. 

5 Coin Set.....1854-O thru 1859-O but no 1857-O.

Don't have grades for the coins (I assume they aren't raw)....I'll see if I can find the grade on the RCTV website.

Oil is being sold but at a 20-30% discount to the listed Brent price.

I suspect any gold sales might be similarly discounted.  Could explain the recent weakness.

On 7/18/2022 at 10:23 PM, EagleRJO said:

 Defacing of US coins is legal so long as the defacement isn't for fraudulent purposes"

Strange......

On 7/18/2022 at 11:12 AM, Cutiedimez said:

O ok ...well thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm really new at all this..but I will say ppl are buying these coins for lots of mo ey even if they are not worth anything.  I think I may just post them for a lot of money and see who is gonna buy it ...thanks for the info

Buying WHAT coins ?  WHICH coins ?

Coin collectors have a wide range of knowledge, but nobody is going to buy a regular ordinary penny for more than a few pennies, even if they overpay by 100-500%.  Nobody is paying $50 or $500 or $5,000 for a penny that is worth $0.01 -- unless their residence is Bellevue Hospital in NYC. 

On 7/10/2022 at 11:02 AM, ivanterror33 said:

I am feeling a little upset. I have some unslabbed modern gold proof coins hidden away. Today, upon inspection, one of them has a tiny red spot.

How long have you had these coins and what year were they minted ?

On 7/17/2022 at 5:23 PM, Coinbuf said:

Stewart Blay has an incredible Lincoln cent collection including the finest graded Lincoln cent, his 1919 MS69RD is fabulous.

Is that the young kid I read about last year ?

On 7/17/2022 at 10:13 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

That may very well be so, but these coins had to be retrieved and conserved. If you are a collector in the market for a "hook," i.e., something with an interesting historical slant for your collection, welcome to the world of shipwreck coins.  

Good point...now that I think about it, the SSCA stuff sold at 500-600% premiums.

But that was a well-publicized shipwreck for valuable gold coins....these are much more plentiful I believe (any SLQ experts here ?) so I wonder about the markup.

On 7/17/2022 at 8:58 PM, zadok said:

500-600%

You sure ?  I know the markup on Morgans and Saints and Liberty's was about 30%.  Maybe the grade was such that the coins were worth more, I didn't stick around to find out.

On 7/17/2022 at 11:55 AM, DWLange said:

The Jack Lee Collections (he assembled a second after selling the first) were quite memorable, and his Morgans soldier on as top point getters in other collectors' registry sets.

I think I heard of that collection, Dave.  When was Lee active in collecting ?

SEATED LIBERTY HALF DOLLARS:   I caught a few seconds of an RCTV infomercial Saturday during one of the dead time slots and they were hawking SS Republic Shipwreck Liberty Half Dollars:  1854-O thru 1859-O with the exception of the 1857-O (rare date ?).

They wanted $2,500 in 2 payments.  How much of a premium over market is that ?

On 7/16/2022 at 7:25 PM, RWB said:

Can anyone mention any "famous Morgan dollar collections?" (Real collection, not hoards of bags.) I recall only a couple....

Nope...and I can't name any Penny, Nickel, Dime, Quarter, or other collections, too. 

Either a collection is all-encompassing or it focuses on Saints or 1804 and earlier dollars or something like that....or the collector remains anonymous.

On 7/16/2022 at 12:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Try, try  try to find that video. I knew you would be interested; that's why I mentioned it to you.  He's a very likeable guy.

I listened to the Saints part (about 3 minutes)...will listen to the rest this weekend.

On 7/16/2022 at 12:10 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Why the 1933 D.E. coin appeared interspersed among Errors and Varieties, etc. is still a mystery to me--but it's there for all to hear.  🐓 

I think because it's a coin that was not supposed to be released and yet some got out and now 1 -- and only 1 -- is out there (safely guarded by our friend EC ).  That's why it's in his circle aside from being the most famous illicit coin or gold coin every produced by our country.

Thinking more of Fred Weinberg's encounter with a 1933 Saint Double Eagle in 1977...he must have had very little time to look at it (or maybe he's just not familiar with Saints in general) because one thing I've been told here and on other forums is that experts can look at a coin like that in seconds and determine the grade.

In his case, he didn't see a very distinguishing mark on the obverse.  It's too bad. 

I believe he is now retired or retiring so maybe he'll be a guest speaker at some big coin shows and elaborate further on this.  Would love to hear about stories like this and other interesting coins he encountered over the decades. 

On 7/16/2022 at 10:13 AM, zadok said:

...roosters were just an example to see if u were paying attention...same is true with netherlands 10G's n other european equivalent gold issues, most just placeholders to mint the gold to back up currency n basically not circulated only rarity is grade related, much like the US modern series, common except super grades...several of the european currencies approaching parity, i bought those that i mite travel to in the next year or two, vkurt should buy some british pounds while down n save himself few hundred dollars on his next trip...gentleman, officer n scholar not sure these r approaching parity yet....

I am sure Rooster buyers here in America are few and far behind (not sure I've ever see one at a LCS or coin show)....but they MAY be much more common over in Europe or more specifically, France.

Haven't been to any French coin shops or European coin shows lately. 

On 7/16/2022 at 7:58 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I heard that !!!  Unfortunately, it's true.  There is nothing I can say or do about it. That may change over time, but I won't be around to see it.  (Interesting development: both the euro and USD, as you may have heard, have achieved parity for the first time in 20 years.) Carry on, gentlemen...  🐓 

All that matters is that YOU like them, QA. 

On 7/15/2022 at 6:51 PM, Coinbuf said:

What I'm saying is that you cannot apply a single image of a single grade across the entire production of each mint, compare an MS65 1881-S to an MS65 1904-O, the NO mint coin will (most of the time) have a far less impressive strike than the SF coin.   On the NO coin the hair curls over the ear are often found very flat and the eagle's breast feathers the same due to an incomplete strike where the SF one will be razor sharp.   If you were grading these only on a technical scale there is no way that both could receive the same grade, but under market grading the strike is de-prioritized and other factors like luster are given more weight, thus the higher grade for the NO coin which lacks the technicals.   Keep in mind that I'm discussing MS grades here not circulated coinage, once you drop down into the circulated grades the strike quality is less of a factor.   That is not to say that market grading and gradeflation have not impacted the circulated grading, they have.

Same thing with some Saints.....weak strikes on some coins like the 1908 No Motto.

Eagle, if you buy certified/graded coins you eliminate the chance of making a big mistake if you start buying coins that are 3 and 4-figures.  CAC adds in price, but also is a check on gradeflation.

On 7/15/2022 at 3:50 PM, DWLange said:

The Eliasberg Collection was inherited by his two sons. Louis, Jr. got the USA gold coins, and Richard got the remaining USA coins and the world pieces. Evidently, Pop thought that was an approximately equal division of value. Louis was impulsive and opted to sell the USA gold almost immediately in the very bad market of 1982; thus, he left a lot of money on the table. Richard held back, selling his USA pieces in the quiet but better market of 1996-97, then selling the world pieces in the very active market of 2005.

Wow, I didn't know that.  So one son sold right away and the other took his time.  That explains the time gap.  Thanks, Dave.  

On 7/15/2022 at 3:50 PM, DWLange said:

Regarding Abner Kreisberg, he was never a collector but always a dealer. He and Abe Kosoff had a parting of the ways following the King Farouk sale in 1954 when Abner suspected (or was certain) that Abe had bought some coins for their joint business and some for his own account on the side.

Wow....intrigue !!   Yes, if it wasn't clear above I knew Mehl, K&K, Switt....they were all DEALERS and not collectors.

On 7/15/2022 at 3:10 PM, zadok said:

...one collection comes to mind that isnt famous, the Brand collection assembled by Virgil Brand, it encompassed everything, US n foreign, literally hundreds of thousands of coins n took years to disperse...he often bought entire collections to add to his, as did Eliasberg...agree top registry sets do not equate to "fame" they r just what the name infers...

I think it took DECADES to disperse, Zad !

Even the Eliasberg sale took I think about 15 years to liquidate.  I realize it might take a few years, but 15 ?  And it's not like they sold off all the top stuff and it took a while to sell the "dregs" of the collection that nobody wanted.  I believe both sales included top Morgans, Saints, Liberty's, etc.

On 7/15/2022 at 2:35 PM, zadok said:

...auction houses routinely provided the subscribers of their catalogs with a prices realized list after the auction, some of the auction houses offered this service for a small fee at the time of subscription...if u spent enuf money u got subsequent catalogs n prices realized gratis....

Yes, I see those with all the ones I bought, from 1950 through 1998.  Those are great to know.  The Mejou 1950 catalog also has the pre-auction estimate and the final realized price.

On 7/15/2022 at 11:56 AM, World Colonial said:

Yes, I know the names in your list above, except for Kreisberg who I have no clue about. This still doesn't mean that most US collectors (much less from anywhere else) have ever heard of most of these people.  I don't think they have.

Kreisberg was Kosoff's partner (for a while) and they both did the Adolf Menjou sale in 1950.  

I agree with you that most U.S. collectors don't know who these people are.

On 7/15/2022 at 9:18 AM, World Colonial said:

There aren't any.  I wouldn't call any coin collection famous at all.  Eliasberg is the closest one and predominantly to US collectors, not elsewhere.

Famous to us.  You ask the average American to name a famous coin collection, they have no idea.  They are more likely to know and name a famous telescope ! 

When I think of famous collections, these come to mind within 30 seconds:  Eliasberg.... Norweb.....Bass....the 1930's and 1940's oldtimers who dealt with the great dealers Mehl, Kosoff, Kreisberg, etc.......Hansen (but I don't know exactly what he has besides some top Saints).....Half Dome (not sure who started this one but the name sticks with me because of the California hiking mountain)....Simpson......and now I think of our friend, Elite Collection (only 1933 DE, #3 at worst 1907 UHR).

On 7/15/2022 at 8:45 AM, DWLange said:

Years ago, before it became so easy to trace the sales history of particular coins online, dealers frequently would request removal of famous names such as Norweb or Eliasberg, because they didn't want potential buyers knowing how much the dealers had paid by checking the published "prices realized" list. From time to time new owners discover that they have coins from these famous collections and request that the names be added. NGC will do this, as long as it can be certain of the provenance from the criteria stated above.

That's interesting on the removal thing, because since you probably are going to sell the coin for MORE $$$ than you paid, you would think checking the purchase price would be inconsequential.

Also, I would think pre-Internet that finding out sales prices was very difficult except for coins that got publicity and news articles written about them.

On 7/14/2022 at 10:06 PM, zadok said:

 

 

I certainly agree..........

On 7/14/2022 at 4:54 PM, SpyglassNetwork said:

To be fair I did somewhat jump in feet first. As far as seeing them in person, no. I have seen and have gold double eagles (pre 33) that are graded and am finding that I may not have done enough research before jumping in on Indians. I was not aware about the counterfeit issue. 

We've ALL made these mistakes, so don't beat yourself up.  Just make sure you LEARN from them.

And don't forget to take advantage of resources like these forums, especially on Indian Heads and Saints. 

And yeah....you're just learning about them ?  Make sure your next few purchases are either graded or you run it by folks here with some high-res pics.