FYI - coin die varieties 1 1

[dprince1138]

One of the key components when inspecting a coin is to identify any die varieties.  There are many types of die varities, some are simply die errors, such as cracks or doubled die, some are repair of a previous die issue.  For example, the attached image is of a capped bust half dollar, where 50 was repunched over an inverted 5 (referred to as 50/20), so that 50 appears in the correct orientation.   Some of the clues for these die varities are extremely small and difficult to see.   I use a jewelers loupe (30x\60x) that I had purchased on Amazon for $13 and I am very satisfied with its capabilities.

One source that I use for identifying varieties is; 

United States Categories | VarietyPlus® | NGC

However, there are certain coin denominations and designs, such as the capped bust half dollar, that do not have an explanation of the die variety clues.

I have found a web site with extensive information on die varieties for capped bust half dollars.

http://www.maibockaddict.com/

Also, I have found a publisher who has compiled an extensive list of die varieties for capped bust half dollars, which I have purchased and if anyone has a question about these die varieties, please do not hesitate to contact me.

A second reference site for Seated Liberty Dime die varieties;

https://www.seateddimevarieties.com/

Also, die varieties are associated with a rare rating, which is a value between 1 and 10, where 10 is the rarest.  The coin shown here is of the rating 1,

Also, die varieties are assigned a number.  These numbers will have different prefixes, usually associated with the person who compiled the inventory of die varities.  For capped bust halves, the prefix is O for Overton.  The number for the die variety of this coin is O-112.

Edited November 8, 2023 by dprince1138

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Not quite right....

Die Variety = Varieties always occur on the die itself. The are anomalies of one kind of another on the die (outside the "norm" for that die's design, etc.).  By this definition, coins that are often called "errors" are actually varieties (1955 DDO Cent, 1937 3-Legged Buffalo Nickel, 1804 Spiked Chin Half Cent).  A die variety is also the unique combination of obverse and reverse dies.  Die varieties occur on multiple consecutively minted coins in a series.

Die State = are a measurement of die deterioration based on evidence left on a struck coin/token.  This would include die cracks, cuds, clashes etc.  Die states occur on multiple consecutively minted coins in a series, and generally progress over time. 

Errors = These are "one-offs" and do not include anomalies on the die.  Errors occur when there is a mechanical defect in the striking of the coin (off strikes, double strikes, wrong planchets, mules, etc.)

Edited November 8, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist
changed consecutive to "consecutively minted" to not confuse with consecutive dates in a series.

[Sandon]

    For NGC's explanation of the difference between die varieties and mint errors, see Variety vs. Mint Error | NGC (ngccoin.com). It is also important to differentiate between die varieties on early (pre-1837) U.S. coins and those on later issues.

   On the early issues dies were prepared by punching each element (Liberty Head, eagle, dates, letters, stars, into each die), so the coins struck from each die pair can likely be distinguished as a separate die variety. Some of these varieties don't have any particularly distinctive or interesting characteristics and are of interest mainly to specialists in the series in question, such as members of the Bust Half Nut Club, whose goal is to collect as many as possible of the, as I recall, five hundred or so known varieties of Bust half dollars by Overton numbers. Some specialists also collect individual varieties by die state. Only those varieties with sufficiently distinctive characteristics to be listed in major guides such as the "Redbook" tend to attract the attention of the broader community of collectors. However, the less distinctive varieties that are scarce enough to have ratings of Rarity 5 (R5) or higher may command high prices from specialists at well-publicized coin auctions, so those who are willing to closely examine every early U.S. coin they encounter may occasionally profit from their knowledge and scrutiny.

   Beginning around 1837 most dies were made from "hubs" that usually included all die elements except the date and any mint mark.  Dates have been included in the hubs since about 1908 and mint marks since about 1992.  Most die varieties are identified either by minor differences in date or mint mark positions or by some anomaly in the die such as repunched dates or mint marks, doubled dies, prominent die scratches, small areas of hand engraving, and the like.  Many or most die pairs produced (and still produce) coins with no discernible differences worthy of notice. Although some numismatists, such as Newcomb for 1837-57 large cents, have endeavored to catalog some of the nineteenth century series comprehensively, they are often very difficult to attribute.

   

[powermad5000]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:28 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

Not quite right....

Another swing and a miss by the OP. Smh 

Edited November 8, 2023 by powermad5000

[Coinbuf]

[dprince1138]

Thankyou for the bumps!

[J P M]

On 11/8/2023 at 6:03 PM, dprince1138 said:

Thankyou for the bumps!

Is there a prize for getting comments on a thread. I see the bump comment quite a lot on dprince threads. Actually, I think it is his top reply to a question.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

@dprince1138 -Listen, don't feel bad, I literally asked for these specific definitions 4-5 months ago, as I have seen them used interchangeably.  I understand your frustration with the reception you are getting here.  But, I want you to understand that your approach to the forum was not the best.  You came here touting that you buy cheap coins from Etsy (a primary counterfeit distributor) and resell those coins to people who really don't understand what they are getting - this is enough to send the true collectors rabid.  Then you have posted some numismatic content (which I love the effort to have numismatic content), but you have inaccuracies in almost every post.  This board is known for correcting anyone who is inaccurate, and I have been wrong, too (I like being corrected because I learn, and I do not mislead others).  But, when you are an Etsy-sourced dealer and inaccurate, it galvanizes the feeling in us that you are ripping people off.

You need to embrace your newness... stop selling coins, and engage the group with curiosity of a numismatists - not a flipper.  It will take time for you to build your credibility, but I can honestly say that those that have posted above are some of the first to help collectors once the fence-mending is done.

[dprince1138]

A Register of Liberty Seated Half Dollar Varieties

[cobymordet]

“It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma…” In an October 1939 radio speech, Winston Churchill used this phrase to describe a situation that was difficult to comprehend. (At the time, he was analyzing the early events of the second war to end all wars.) 

[dprince1138]

Et tu, @cobymordet?

[cobymordet]

Musca in pariete

I just enjoy reading and making sense of all posts and hope I learn from them.  
And, I have always wondered who said that enigma quote.  I was surprised that it was Churchill.

 

[dprince1138]

[dprince1138]

1830 Capped Bust dime, JR-6, R2/3.  (Medium 50C).

1834 Capped Bust half dollar, O-121, R3.  (Small date, Small letters, Stair Step date)

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by dprince1138

[EagleRJO]

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

@dprince1138 I tried.  At this point, I can no longer engage with you.  I wish you luck.  I am out.

[dprince1138]

1877 S Seated Liberty Half dollar, Very Small S, Type 2, WB-20 (reference WB-104), R3

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by dprince1138

[dprince1138]

PCGS CoinFacts: Your Digital Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by dprince1138

[dprince1138]

An 1832 Capped Bust dime arrived today.  I had purchased this dime as I had suspected that it may be of a particulae die variety.  Since the asking price was fair value, I purchased it.   There are a number of clues identifying the die variety as JR-5, R1. 

For comparison, there is an image of the regular die and JR-5 die.

 

[dprince1138]

I must say, this thread certainly has been light of my disparagers.  I suppose it will be up to me to keep bumps going.

 

 

[RWB]

If you want more interaction, try explaining the varieties, how they occurred, who discovered them, their importance (if any), etc. Merely posting photos and canned descriptions does not engage readers. Try to provide something new and/or interesting about the varieties.

Edited November 10, 2023 by RWB

[dprince1138]

Thank you!  I knew I would not be disappointed.

I have another coin on the way, for which I am hoping is a R4 level variety.  If not, the price was fair for the grade.  If so, then I will actualy send in for grading.

Another coin that I have on the way seems to be a seated liberty dime with a broken 3.  While this is not a high rarity item, I do not see any for sale.  Also, a brokern 3 can be either completely broken or very weak on the lower curl.  

Edited November 10, 2023 by dprince1138

[dprince1138]

I received the 1891 Seated Liberty dime that I thought could be an 89/89 repunch, VP-003 (there is an 891 repunch, VP-002. with a toadstool in the 9).  The only clue is the 9 having a p---s (my description).  However, at 90x, I see a smaller p---s, so I may need to send it in.  However, it could simply be damage.

(All criticism, constructive, or otherwise, welcome).

Edited November 10, 2023 by dprince1138

[powermad5000]

I think you should spend the money to submit all of your coins. Maybe you will learn something from it as you have taken no advice from any of the members here.

[dprince1138]

Thank you!

[RWB]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:39 PM, dprince1138 said:

Thank you!  I knew I would not be disappointed.

I have another coin on the way, for which I am hoping is a R4 level variety.  If not, the price was fair for the grade.  If so, then I will actualy send in for grading.

Another coin that I have on the way seems to be a seated liberty dime with a broken 3.  While this is not a high rarity item, I do not see any for sale.  Also, a brokern 3 can be either completely broken or very weak on the lower curl.  

So.....Why is it "broken?" How did this happen? Why are there versions of this? Inform your readers.....

Edited November 11, 2023 by RWB

[dprince1138]

Thank you!

[EagleRJO]

I think you are misattributing varieties again, including the 1891 dime.  While it's just based on a photo and it's blurry, it only looks like a common die chip at the inner bottom loop of the "9" that doesn't match the die markers doing a propper comparison.

As advised numerous times now I think you need to start over from scratch with how you are doing authentication and variety attributions.  But it seems like you are not good at accepting other opinions or advice, and you have the coins in hand.  So maybe you should submit it to prove us wrong.

[dprince1138]

Thank  you!

1836 capped bust half dime, LM-5, R3 (small 5C)

Edited November 11, 2023 by dprince1138

[dprince1138]

FYI, the first coin presented is an 1807 capped bust half dollar.  As expressed, some of the die variety clues can be very small and magnification to some degree is extremely useful.

Here is an 1858/8 O Seated Liberty half dollar, VP-002, R3

"The second 8 was repunched north of the first impression, and part of what is probably another 8 is seen to the northeast. The bottom of yet another 8 is seen embedded within Liberty's base."

Edited November 12, 2023 by dprince1138