1878 7TF REV OF 79 $1 Possible DMPL? Opinions on coin condition, worthy of grading? Or any other opinions welcome. 1 1

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

I'm new to this. Hopefully these photos are acceptable..apologies in advance if not.

[Sandon]

    I think that your coin would likely grade in the AU 55-58 range, as based on your photos it shows a fair amount of "rub". It also appears to have been "dipped" in a tarnish removing solution, which might result in it receiving a "details" grade as "cleaned". It has some field to device contrast but likely not enough to call it "prooflike" and definitely not "deep mirror prooflike". (DMPL or DPL). I wouldn't submit it to a grading service.

    I recommend that, if possible, you attend coin shows and see what NGC and PCGS graded Morgan dollars (including those with PL and DMPL designations) actually look like in various grades, as it is difficult to understand the differences from even the best photos. However, PCGS Photograde (PCGS Photograde Online - Estimating Coin Grades Has Never Been Easier) is a start.  (While only valuable coins are worthy of submitting to grading services, every coin is "worthy of grading"--by you!)

   You have, however, correctly identified the coin as an 1878 7 tailfeathers, reverse of 1879. I have met some collectors who have spent a great deal of money on Morgan dollars who would be unable to do so.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:44 PM, Sandon said:

    I think that your coin would likely grade in the AU 55-58 range, as based on your photos it shows a fair amount of "rub". It also appears to have been "dipped" in a tarnish removing solution, which might result in it receiving a "details" grade as "cleaned". It has some field to device contrast but likely not enough to call it "prooflike" and definitely not "deep mirror prooflike". (DMPL or DPL). I wouldn't submit it to a grading service.

    I recommend that, if possible, you attend coin shows and see what NGC and PCGS graded Morgan dollars (including those with PL and DMPL designations) actually look like in various grades, as it is difficult to understand the differences from even the best photos. However, PCGS Photograde (PCGS Photograde Online - Estimating Coin Grades Has Never Been Easier) is a start.  (While only valuable coins are worthy of submitting to grading services, every coin is "worthy of grading"--by you!)

   You have, however, correctly identified the coin as an 1878 7 tailfeathers, reverse of 1879. I have met some collectors who have spent a great deal of money on Morgan dollars who would be unable to do so.

Great information Sandon! Hopefully I did better on these pictures like you requested.

Yeah i was afraid it was possibly "dipped". In person the mirrors are beautiful but the field to device contrast like you said just isnt enough.. i was wondering..

I really need to invest in a digital coin microscope..I agree with everything you posted. Maybe if they are ever around Missouri. Bummer I can dream thanks again! 

[Coinbuf]

I agree with @Sandon with regard to your coin grading as AU55 or AU58, however, I do not see anything that would lead me to think this coin would receive a details grade from your photos.   I think that it could receive a PL grade, but think a DMPL would be unlikely, I have included a screenshot of the NGC explorer page for your reference.   As you can see the census shows 1 coin in AU55PL and 2 in AU58PL, so from that data it seems that NGC does not give the PL grade out very often.   That could also be because very few PL AU examples have been submitted to NGC as the value doesn't look to be enough to be worth the costs.   You have a very nice attractive coin, but it might be better to simply enjoy it as is vs spending the funds to have it certified.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Sandon]

   Here are photos of an 1883-CC Morgan dollar graded by NGC in a GSA holder as MS 65 PL (not DMPL) and posted on another topic today by @MorganMan. You will note that the reflectivity is much greater than on your coin.

 

[MorganMan]

I did not post this in this topic. You are confused sir.

 

Ooops I see now. Never mind.

Edited August 10, 2023 by MorganMan

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

The 1878 year is a difficult year to assess. There are tons of examples with fantastic frost and seemingly mirror like fields that do not get even the PL designation. I think possibly because this being the first year of the series and all the dies were new and fresh. Believe it or not, the coin in the pic at the end of my post did NOT get a PL designation. How NGC measures the fields for reflectivity and determines what designation the coin receives (straight, PL, or DPL) remains to be known to us, but for this particular year, imho it is difficult to even get the PL grade. You can observe this by doing a search on eBay and just looking at the thousands of 1878 Morgans for sale with tremendous frost, some highly reflective (and the seller will put PL in the description despite the fact it is not on the label in the slab), and great eye appeal.

I think your coin would grade out at the lowest MS grade of 60 (the eagle on the reverse still has detail on the claws and there seems to be a hint of the slightest detail of the eagles breast feathers. I don't think it would get a PL. I do think it would get a details grade of Reverse Cleaned (A coin can be cleaned on one side only) as the obverse looks appropriate for the year, but the reverse just has a completely different look.

Remember, this coin did NOT get a PL designation.

[J P M]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:31 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Your coin is a hard one to judge from a photo. The obverse looks close to  MS over all nice detail but the reverse looks like it has been rubbed. I think it would grade as cleaned .

Edited August 11, 2023 by J P M

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/10/2023 at 4:44 PM, Sandon said:

It also appears to have been "dipped" in a tarnish removing solution, which might result in it receiving a "details" grade as "cleaned"

I believe PCGS and NGC both widely accepts dipped coins they straight grade them do not consider them “cleaned” maybe at one time that was a big NO-NO in coin collecting but not anymore more and more people are becoming aware that Dipping is not cleaning…. Although I agree with you on grade tho. I myself don’t consider dipped coins “cleaned” if it’s done right this coin in picture looks like whoever dipped it did it right it would straight grade by PCGS or NGC …. however I do draw the line when it comes to dipping certain coins some should not be dipped … I have both rainbow toned and bright white coins in my collection … but to each their own on the subject about dipping as cleaning or not 

[Sandon]

@Jason Abshier--In my experience, if a coin was left in the "dip" too long or wasn't properly rinsed thereafter, a grading service will "details" grade it as "cleaned". The OP's coin appears unnaturally bright to me and might or might not be numerically graded.

@Shygirl2020!--Welcome to the NGC chat board.  Please post your question as a new topic, not on another member's unrelated topic. 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:18 AM, Jason Abshier said:

I believe PCGS and NGC both widely accepts dipped coins they straight grade them do not consider them “cleaned” maybe at one time that was a big NO-NO in coin collecting but not anymore more and more people are becoming aware that Dipping is not cleaning…. Although I agree with you on grade tho. I myself don’t consider dipped coins “cleaned” if it’s done right this coin in picture looks like whoever dipped it did it right it would straight grade by PCGS or NGC …. however I do draw the line when it comes to dipping certain coins some should not be dipped … I have both rainbow toned and bright white coins in my collection … but to each their own on the subject about dipping as cleaning or not 

That was some other things bouncing around in my head. I guess I would just have to take a chance. With the added on cost of grading for what I paid I'm pretty sure I'm just at a loss..probably a loss without grading. Still a pretty cool piece all in all. Maybe one day I can find a dealer that helps with submissions that's not a state over lol. I don't fully understand the whole process and don't want to make a mistake or lose it in the mail. Making connections with a good dealer is next on my list.

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:55 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

That was some other things bouncing around in my head. I guess I would just have to take a chance. With the added on cost of grading for what I paid I'm pretty sure I'm just at a loss

Me personally I wouldn’t send this coin for grading but that’s just me …

@Sandon I definitely agree I’ve seen my fair share of over dipped coins you’re correct they will detail grade for improperly cleaned I believe … I wasn’t aware that’s what you meant in your post when you stated dipped coins will detail grade as “cleaned” …. My apologies if I misread what you meant when wrote that in your post . 

[EagleRJO]

Actually PCGS differentiates between "cleaning" and "dipping".  Cleaning (PCGS Code 92) relates to abrasive treatments to remove dirt and grime from a coin surface, and specifically excludes "dipping".  I don't think NGC makes the same differentiation.

https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade92

[powermad5000]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:55 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Making connections with a good dealer is next on my list.

There is a dealer locator on this site that lists dealers that will submit to NGC properly for you, and you can save on shipping costs as most will lump customers coins together into one shipment to save on shipping costs overall.