Cpy79 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Hello All, Looking for some guidance here. I recently submitted a 2021 D Morgan Dollar for grading. It has been in the original box and coin holder since being purchased. It has never been taken out of the plastic coin holder the mint sent it to me; I am the original owner. The coin just got graded as “Cleaned.” How can this happen? Rather new to submitting coins for grading and looking for some advice here. Does this happen?! If the mint cleaned the planchet or the coin prior to delivering…what then? Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Welcome to the forum, without photos about all we can offer is guesses, I can think of a couple of possible issues. First if the coin came into contact with something before it left the mint, perhaps in the packaging phase at the mint. Second it could be a mechanical error, this happens when an employee at NGC makes a mistake when entering the data and/or creating the label. If the coin is still at NGC I suggest that you contact NGC customer service and see if it is possible to double check this before it is shipped to you. And third humans are not perfect and the graders may have got it wrong, I consider this third possibility the least likely but still it can happen. If you have the coin back I suggest that you look it over very carefully, you will need to use a good light and tile the coin around to look for small hairlines. These can be very difficult to detect sometimes until the light hits them just right. ronnie stein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpy79 Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 (edited) Thanks. I contacted NGC this morning and asked them for more info on it. Here are the pictures. I still don’t have it in hand yet. Edited May 12 by Cpy79 JT2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 The obverse photo certainly looks like a coin that was wiped with a cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Wow, sorry to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 The 2021-D examples really do leave a whole lot to be desired. It’s not always THIS, but I’ve seen some real stinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsshog40 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 The mints quality has gone way down hill in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpy79 Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 Agree. Just didn’t think anything about this as I took it from mint box and mailed it off. Unreal. Didn’t think it could come back as cleaned from directly from the US Mint and in their packaging. The mint’s 2021 D Morgan release was . 3 coins received…one MS68, one MS69 and one cleaned. No bueno! Thanks for everyone’s thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 On 5/12/2022 at 4:20 PM, Cpy79 said: Agree. Just didn’t think anything about this as I took it from mint box and mailed it off. Unreal. Didn’t think it could come back as cleaned from directly from the US Mint and in their packaging. The mint’s 2021 D Morgan release was . 3 coins received…one MS68, one MS69 and one cleaned. No bueno! Thanks for everyone’s thoughts. Now, why were they graded at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearlyHereBear Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I sent in each of the 5 Morgans and 1 Peace. All MS70 but the D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 It's not worth the money (unless you think so) but crack it out and send it ATS for a second opinion. One way or the other you'll know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 On 5/21/2022 at 2:33 PM, BearlyHereBear said: I sent in each of the 5 Morgans and 1 Peace. All MS70 but the D Did that one get a 69? I am never getting mine graded. I like original packaging too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearlyHereBear Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 On 5/22/2022 at 12:40 AM, VKurtB said: Did that one get a 69? I am never getting mine graded. I like original packaging too much. yep...that's why I usually buy slabs instead of raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Every one I sent in came back perfect --- But, I didn't send any so I'm not sure this counts in fantasy numismatics. ronnie stein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 I only purchased two of the 2021 Morgan Dollars. The 2021 P came back MS 70 and the 2021 CC Privy came back MS 69. I am satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen83333 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) Same here......exactly the same. Sent in the 5 Morgans and the Peace......all 70's except the Denver. Feels like it screwed up the whole set. Edited June 21 by Stephen83333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 On 6/21/2022 at 1:11 AM, Stephen83333 said: Same here......exactly the same. Sent in the 5 Morgans and the Peace......all 70's except the Denver. Feels like it screwed up the whole set. On one hand, Denver usually makes superior circulation coinage to Philly’s, but on the other hand, these Morgan pieces were not struck on production machines. Denver doesn’t often do larger coins at all. Their bailiwick seems to be the uncirc versions of some commemoratives. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I really dislike reading posts like this. I do not see myself buying coins direct from the mint, so this does not impact me. But, the sour taste that the Mint puts in collectors' mouths is terrible for the hobby as a whole. It's bad enough that the Mint floods the market with (IMO) too many coins. It is particularly salty when those that do buy Mint products... wait, put up with the glitches/crashes, and ultimately end up with sub-par/damaged coins. Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 On 6/21/2022 at 2:19 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: It is particularly salty when those that do buy Mint products... wait, put up with the glitches/crashes, and ultimately end up with sub-par/damaged coins. Absolutely 100% correct. The Morgan - Peace Dollar is the perfect example of the US Mint's all hype and no show. I half expected another States Quarters fiasco that would run for year after year. The United States Mint - may it rest in peace. Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) On 6/21/2022 at 2:41 PM, Alex in PA. said: Absolutely 100% correct. The Morgan - Peace Dollar is the perfect example of the US Mint's all hype and no show. I half expected another States Quarters fiasco that would run for year after year. The United States Mint - may it rest in peace. The Mint is a substantively hamstrung institution that has restrictions on it unlike any “first world” equivalent. Congress is the Mint’s taskmaster. Yes, the Mint is not exactly crawling with expertise lately, and many functions they used to handle “in house” are now done by outside contractors, where the locus of their loyalties is often ambiguous. This Mint is in a no-win predicament often, but they often compound that ill by not handling well the things that are within its bailiwick. The 2021 Morgan and Peace dollar program was ideologically driven by Tom Uram, of the Pittsburgh area, and former ANA VP and CCAC member. He is also the FIRST recipient of the ANA Chester Krause Award for distinguished service, AND a dear friend. The last Farran Zerbe Awardee and the first Chet Krause Awardee are both Pennsylvanians and both dear friends. Edited June 21 by VKurtB Alex in PA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 When in doubt and need top quality American Eagles just pick up your phone and call Rosland Capital. Ask for William Devane; he will fix you right up. ronnie stein and Raygun99 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) I do not know Mr Uram. I am sure he is an awesome guy, and a numismatic guru. However, to be named as the person who spearheaded this program would not be something I would want. It is akin to the creator of Google Glass - a great idea that should have died in the concept phase of development. It was never correctly filed to become a commemorative, and it's become collectible bullion as a result. From concept to distribution, this product has failed the hobby. I believe its lack of persistence will be its greatest attribute. However, collectors have as much blame in this. The mint creates products, and dealers are able to skim from the top and gouge collectors because we (collectively) allow it. We continue to buy it; year after year. You cannot win a war in drugs, because there are those that are willing to buy (despite risks), so how will you win the war on bad coins? Edited June 21 by The Neophyte Numismatist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) On 6/21/2022 at 5:16 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said: I do not know Mr Uram. I am sure he is an awesome guy, and a numismatic guru. However, to be named as the person who spearheaded this program would not be something I would want. It is akin to the creator of Google Glass - a great idea that should have died in the concept phase of development. It was never correctly filed to become a commemorative, and it's become collectible bullion as a result. From concept to distribution, this product has failed the hobby. I believe its lack of persistence will be its greatest attribute. However, collectors have as much blame in this. The mint creates products, and dealers are able to skim from the top and gouge collectors because we (collectively) allow it. We continue to buy it; year after year. You cannot win a war in drugs, because there are those that are willing to buy (despite risks), so how will you win the war on bad coins? It’s worse, isn’t it? The 2021 Morgan and Peace are about .8 Troy ounces and sold for $85. The closest physical match among ASE products is the W burnished, which is a full ounce of silver and sell for $67. Both are .999 silver. $18 more for less silver. Mm, mm, mm. Edited June 21 by VKurtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Another close match were the Unc commemorative dollars. Same size, same weight, same fineness, MUCH lower mintage (actual mintages, their authorized mintages were higher) and priced at $64 as compared to $85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raygun99 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 On 6/21/2022 at 4:46 PM, Alex in PA. said: When in doubt and need top quality American Eagles just pick up your phone and call Rosland Capital. Ask for William Devane; he will fix you right up. Yes .. His entire retirement is invested in GOLD, stored in his reverse mortgaged garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
