Half dollar 1856 S with countermark 1 1

[Diemguarns]

Hi, what do you think of this countermark? Looks legit? Japanese? Thanks

[RWB]

I think it ruined a nice collector coin that could be worth several hundred dollars without the damage.

Edited March 31, 2022 by RWB

[bsshog40]

It could be but not my area of expertise.  There are those that collect counterstamped coins though. 

[tj96]

A chop mark on one of those?? 

Were their trade half dollars?

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by tj96

[Woods020]

It does look like a chop mark. These are usually seen on trade dollars which were minted with the intent of being used internationally. The Japanese would make these marks to verify silver content. It’s unusual to see on on a coin other than a trade dollar, but it stands to reason that any US silver coin coming into the shop would be verified the same way during the time. 

[tj96]

I thought the trade dollars went to China not Japan but maybe they did.

[Woods020]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:14 AM, tj96 said:

I thought the trade dollars went to China not Japan but maybe they did.

Sorry typo on my end. The OP said Japan and I just repeated. China it was. 

[Nouzillet]

This is interesting. I can’t tell you if the chop mark is legit. However, based on contemporary records I can state with certainty that  Liberty Seated half dollars were shipped to Japan from San Francisco circa 1859-1860. Other years I don’t know I haven’t looked. Of course upon arrival in Japan a number would have been melted.

[tj96]

I'm amazed that a TPG'er can tell if a chop mark is legit.  I guess there's a way they can tell if a chop marks was stamped 145 years ago or yesterday?

Wouldn't a chop mark be considered damage?......    I guess not.

[CIII]

On 3/31/2022 at 2:44 PM, tj96 said:

I'm amazed that a TPG'er can tell if a chop mark is legit.  I guess there's a way they can tell if a chop marks was stamped 145 years ago or yesterday?

Wouldn't a chop mark be considered damage?......    I guess not.

It wouldn't be considered damage if you were the "chopper".  :-)

[Nouzillet]

I reached out to an expert on these pieces He told me that it appears to be    a legitimate Chinese chop mark. Most of the known Seated halves with chops bear the SF mint mark and are dated 1855-1865

Relatively common examples range from $125  to $250 in average circulated condition Of course they are rarer than Trades with chops.
 

Less encountered P Mint coins can sell for more. An 1853 P Seated half recently sold for just over $1,000

It had two things going for it,  a P Mint issue and a single year type.

Again I received this info from a very knowledgeable collector .

 

 

 

 

 

[zadok]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:34 PM, Nouzillet said:

I reached out to an expert on these pieces He told me that it appears to be    a legitimate Chinese chop mark. Most of the known Seated halves with chops bear the SF mint mark and are dated 1855-1865

Relatively common examples range from $125  to $250 in average circulated condition Of course they are rarer than Trades with chops.
 

Less encountered P Mint coins can sell for more. An 1853 P Seated half recently sold for just over $1,000

It had two things going for it,  a P Mint issue and a single year type.

Again I received this info from a very knowledgeable collector .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zadok]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:34 PM, Nouzillet said:

I reached out to an expert on these pieces He told me that it appears to be    a legitimate Chinese chop mark. Most of the known Seated halves with chops bear the SF mint mark and are dated 1855-1865

Relatively common examples range from $125  to $250 in average circulated condition Of course they are rarer than Trades with chops.
 

Less encountered P Mint coins can sell for more. An 1853 P Seated half recently sold for just over $1,000

It had two things going for it,  a P Mint issue and a single year type.

Again I received this info from a very knowledgeable collector .

 

 

 

 

 

...u r correct in ur statements n ur knowledgeable collector is just that...chinese (not japanese) chop marks r known on US coins other than trade dollars, there r documented examples, specifically in the liberty seated series... dollars, halves, quarters, 20c (double dimes)... theoretically they could exist on dimes n half dimes but i have not personally observed chop marks on those denominations...additionally, there r examples known on other countries coinage that found their way into the orient....contrary to what was presented above, bone fide chop marks r no longer considered as damage to these coins as they were utilized for their normal intended trade function of verification.....coincidentally, there was a presentation n a seminar on this very subject by the Liberty Seated Collectors Club at the whitman coin expo in baltimore this past weekend...

[Hoghead515]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:51 AM, zadok said:

...u r correct in ur statements n ur knowledgeable collector is just that...chinese (not japanese) chop marks r known on US coins other than trade dollars, there r documented examples, specifically in the liberty seated series... dollars, halves, quarters, 20c (double dimes)... theoretically they could exist on dimes n half dimes but i have not personally observed chop marks on those denominations...additionally, there r examples known on other countries coinage that found their way into the orient....contrary to what was presented above, bone fide chop marks r no longer considered as damage to these coins as they were utilized for their normal intended trade function of verification.....coincidentally, there was a presentation n a seminar on this very subject by the Liberty Seated Collectors Club at the whitman coin expo in baltimore this past weekend...

I was curious about them and looked up an article on google about them while back. Very interesting.

[DWLange]

I used to own three Seated Halves with chopmarks---1862-S, 1864-S and 1865-S. These were sold off many years ago.

[VKurtB]

Japanese, Chinese. What evs! But have you ever encountered Amish Choppers?